First ashore

[Muerrisch]

Second Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers, according to their War Diary, sent A, B companies aand HQ ashore at Rouen 4.30PM on 11 August 1914. [C and D followed 13 August]

However the Medal Roll of the 1914 Star gives a substantial number of that unit with 10 August dates for arrival in theatre, many of them officers and senior NCOs.

Two questions:

Were the unit the first formed body of troops ashore at Rouen or indeed any other French/Belgian port, and, more importantly, does any member have a similar landing date disagreement between Medal Roll and War Diary?

This posting on WFA site brought zero responses. Am I lucky here?

David Langley

[Raster Scanning]

My understanding is that the theatre of war does not mean when they actually set foot on shore.

More likely when the unit arrived in the port.

It was quite common for them to arrive and remain on board for a day before actually landing.

John.

[charlesmessenger]

David

First, it would appear that the medal rolls for these men reflect the date that they embarked on board ship at Southampton.

I am fairly certain that 2 RWF were the first formed unit ashore at Rouen and, indeed, Cherbourg and Havre (the other two ports of disembarkation) as well. Their role, together with three other bns, was initially on the lines of communication and, according to the mobilisation tables, these were the first formed untis to cross to France.

The staff required to established the base at Rouen did not themselves cross until 9 August. That required to run the large rest camps through which the troops were funnelled did not land until the following day and spent the remainder of it inspecting the camps that the French had erected for this purpose.

Hope this helps.

Charles M

PS Did get the e-mail I sent you a few days ago via the WFA website?

[Muerrisch]

Thank you Charles. On the 2RWF Medal Roll, 18 all ranks are down as 10 August, with a rank structure [RSM senior]that suggests an advance party. However, 'The War the Infantry Knew' makes great play of RSM being first down the gangplank on 11th. 489 all ranks qualified by landing on 11th. How on earth did the medal roll get drawn up? It was called for at the end of the war. "Hands up all those who landed in F&F before such and such a date? If so, when did you land, my good man?". And if killed in the meantime? I know there were nominal rolls, but, if so, how make an error of landing date. I like to think RSM Michael Murphy was the first "non-admin" soldier to arrive in F&F, full stop. The mind boggles.

And, sorry, no, didn't see an e-mail from you.

David Langley

[MelPack]

David

If it is any help, my grandfather's Medal Index Card specifies the 16 December 1915 as the date he entered the theatre of war - hence his qualification for the 1915 Star.

His own personal diary confirms that this was the date of embarkation from Portsmouth. He arrived at Le Havre on 17 December and joined his Battalion on 23 December.

It would, therefore, appear that the date of entry into the theatre of war is classified as the date of embarkation.

Regards

Mel

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

I have always assumed that the date of embarkation did indeed mean the day you stepped aboard a ship as technically you were now in a Theatre of War - the English Channel!

I have the service record to a Sgt in a infantry line regiment who qualified for his 'Pair' by accompanying drafts of men across the Channel to France and came back with the ship once it had unloaded & re-loaded with whatever they were bringing back. Whether he actually stepped ashore who knows.

Ian

[SPotter]

Gents,

My interest lies with the Dorsetshire Regiment. I can confirm that the Date given on the MIC is the date of disembarkation in the first Theatre of War served in. For example, the 1st Bn Dorsets embarked on their transport vessel SS Anthony on 14th August 1914 in Belfast and disembarked on 16th August 1914 in Le Havre. It is the 16th that is shown on the MIC for the majority of the Bn.

There are a few 'odd' men who managed to precede the Bn. Six men landed in France ahead of the Bn with the earliest 3 men disembarking on the 9th August! I have not done a particular study, but I have numerous copies of MICs to members of the 1st Bn and the complete 1914 Star Roll and have never come across any discrepencies.

Regards

Steve Potter

[robwilliams]

All,

There are many discrepancies in the rolls. In the Warwicks TF battalions all of the officers apparently landed a day after all of the ORs! Can't see that happening somehow.

My understanding is that, as with army records of service, it is the date that you depart somewhere that is recorded. I have the records of Victorian soldiers who are shown as 'Home' 15.12.1897, 'India' 16.12.1897. The 16th being the day they started their journey.

Rob