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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Joseph Broadley, East Yorkshire Regiment, 11th battalion


HeatherN

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hi

My Grandad was in the EYS 11th Battalion.

His name was Joseph Broadley service number 11/309 I am trying to find out if he is actually listed on the original Batallion nominal rolls. I have found published rolls in the Hulls Pals book by David Bilton and my Grandads number 11/309 has been duplicated with the name of soldier 11/306.
 
I have also just purchased a new edition of The East Yorkshire Regiment in the Great War 1914 - 1918 by Everard Wyrall and he is missing on the nominal roll in the book. 
 
So I wonder if anyone could advise where I could view the original Nominal rolls to see if it was just an error or if he was actually missing on the rolls.
Thank you
Heather
 
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Heather

The 1914-15 Rolls for the East Yorkshire Regt confirm that he was 11/309 and record that he disembarked in Egypt on 23/12/1915.

He was discharged in 1917 with a Silver War Badge. The Silver War Badge was issued to men discharged with honour because of wounds or sickness. 

Brian

wo329_3137-00286.jpg

Edited by brianmorris547
typo
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His full service record is on FMP if you subscribe (and presumably on Ancestry)

Enlisted 8th September 1914 ('2 H.B'.)or 11th (Service)  Battalion, once taken over by the War Office.

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Ken

You beat me to it. Just been reading it.

Brian

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Thank you.

I have his full-service record and medical record, he received the SWB as he lost his arm in France.

I know his number is correct but what I am trying to see is an original copy of the nominal rolls for the battalion as despite knowing his service number on numerous records he seems to be missing of the nominal rolls.

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5 hours ago, HeatherN said:

I know his number is correct but what I am trying to see is an original copy of the nominal rolls

Do you know if the any of the original nominal rolls survived?

Nominal Rolls were at best ephemeral documents for administration rather than posterity.  There is a better chance of finding nominal rolls for officers.

A record of "Nominal Rolls of pre-war and Great War volunteers" were destroyed in the Arnside Warehouse Fire in 1940 whether these included details of the East Yorkshire Regiment, or locally raised battalions I don't know https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/the-1940-fire-at-arnside-street/

Even contemporaneous published Rolls of Honour (which are different from a nominal roll) and Memorials have many errors.  Later ones may have more omissions and transcription errors.

Suggest you contact the author, David Bilton, if you have not already done so.   Perhaps through his publisher to establish where he sourced his list from, if it is not mentioned in the text.  If he has a volume on the 11th Battalion in preparation (there is mention of a trilogy) at least your grandfather's service can be noted in that volume.

You may also have seen the York Army Museum Research Service is closed https://yorkarmymuseum.co.uk/research/ but you could ask if there are any Nominal Rolls, there are none listed on the Ogilby Muster.

 

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Thank you Kenf48

I have reached out to the author, no reply as yet. I have also contacted the York Army Museum but will contact them again

 

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On 06/06/2023 at 15:55, brianmorris547 said:

He was discharged in 1917 with a Silver War Badge. The Silver War Badge was issued to men discharged with honour because of wounds or sickness. 

Pension Index Card at WFA/Fold3 shows discharged 31.7.17 and got a disability pension of 27/6 pw to 29.1.18 [the 100% degree of disability rate for a Class V soldier/Private - typically would have been from the day after discharge as you didn't get a final day's pay and also a day's pension!]

M

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On 07/06/2023 at 09:47, HeatherN said:

he lost his arm in France.

Missed this mention of his disability previously.

When discussing his pension index card above I should also have commented that an initial 100% pension rate, 27/6 pw,  was typically a temporary 'starter' rate whilst the MoP sorted out longterm.

For arm amputations the degree of disability assigned and the pension awarded was determined according to whether of the right or left arm and the place

  • Amputation of right arm at shoulder joint = 90% = 24/9 pw [revised 1919 to 36/- pw] = this was the degree and rate indicated on his related pension ledger page - but his main pension awards file is likely lost, probably deliberately destroyed once its use was passed [as were the majority of such files]

For interest the other degrees and rates were:

  • Amputation of left arm at shoulder joint = 80% = 22/- pw [revised 1919 to 32/- pw]
  • Amputation of right arm above or through elbow = 70% = 19/3 pw [revised 19 to 28/- pw]
  • Amputation of left arm above or through elbow or of right arm below elbow = 60% = 16/6 pw revised 1919 to 24/- pw]
  • Amputation of left arm below elbow = 50% = 13/9 pw [revised 1919 to 20/- pw]

Fingers and thumbs variously fell, according to what and where, in the 20-40% range.

Next pension review was 1946 [probably because WW2 veterans objected to the rates!!]

Pensioners typically would be entitled to some training plus treatment and prosthetics [and maintenance/repair] at the MoP's expense at MoP hospital/treatment centres

Hope that adds a bit, sorry it's not the Nominal Roll!

M

Edited by Matlock1418
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ah thank you Matlock1418, that is very interesting. My Grandad initially had a guillotine amputation below the elbow whilst in France on the day he was injured and 5 months later back in the UK had a further amputation above the elbow but not at the shoulder.

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21 minutes ago, HeatherN said:

My Grandad initially had a guillotine amputation below the elbow whilst in France on the day he was injured and 5 months later back in the UK had a further amputation above the elbow but not at the shoulder.

Thanks for replying - Always interesting to compare the MoP pension guide descriptions to an actual application.

You don't say whether right or left arm and neither does the PIC nor the PLP.

The medical / pension assessors had some measure of latitude.  As said the descriptions of degrees of disability and thus the rates were a guide and so as to confirm for your GF's case I offer an abstract from the reverse of his PLP [as can be seen this would be applying the 1919 Royal Warrant, Article 1 (1)]

image.png.59a4ba2117d80a6af38789e1822422ef.png

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

M

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Just now, HeatherN said:

it was his right arm

Sorry to drill down looking for more detail - Do you know if he had a prosthetic arm?

Or perhaps so short an amputation as not to be possible to fit a prosthetic and thus effectively the same as amputation at his shoulder??

M

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4 minutes ago, HeatherN said:

He did but he hated it so just had a stump

The prosthetics of the day were nowhere like as good of those of today [and even those are not perfect!] and many men struggled with them on grounds of pain and fit/usefulness and preferred to go without.  Perhaps the MoP took that into account even though they were generally very cautious in spending the Nation's money! [???]

Interesting to have had a case study.

M

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 Thanks for the info, really helpful insight as I'm trying to find out as much as possible about his service time and obviously his injury. 

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