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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Which regiment?


Denise Ford

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My ancestor Samuel Pullen was known for years to be posted to India - Madras and Bombay particularly. We know he learnt to make saddles and tack, and worked with horses, so the Royal Horse Artilliary comes to mind - but we honestly don't know if he was or wasn't. I have a lot of photos over a few years - bear with me on these - what's throwing me is the tartan trousers in the first one... can anyone help?

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I have plenty of others... but these should be enough - I hope?!! Great pictures... if only my family had recorded what and when they were. They are all of Samuel... despite him looking different (or so we're told by our more senior members of the family - I'm willing to think differently though) - we believe he served for a number of years so presumably rose through the ranks?

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Denise - there are four or five Samuel Pullens with artillery connections on the National Archive's medal index cards. You should take a look there.

The top pic shows guys in tartan trews ... Highland Infantry?

Best wishes - I'm sure you'll soon get an answer from the badge and uniform experts!

Des

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Hi Des

I decided to download all the appropriate Samuels from the Medal Index... there are two Royal Garrison Artillery, two Gloucester regiment and one West Yorkshire regiment and one War Reg? Warwickshire? None seem to make sense to me. Samuel grew up in South London - would i be right in thinking the RGA made a push for recruitment there so that might be logical? Still doesn't explain the tartan, mind you...

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Like you .. I have doubts that they are all the same guy!

I'll leave it to the real experts.

Des

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Thanks Des...

Everyone else... the first photo... is there any remote possibility that the top photo is the Scottish Rifles? Only I have this other pic of Samuel's younger brother Edwin who died in 1912... I posted before about Edwin - he died in Malta, chasing a carrier pigeon off a wall. As coincidence has it, we found a long lost distant cousin who had a pic of his grave in Rimalla Cemetary - he's wrongly listed as Edward on the grave but the Army returns say Edwin and the dates on that match - anyway I'm going off on a tangent a bit here but Edwin's pic (i think...) is this: he doesn't half look like the guy on the far left in the top pic to me...

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Great photos Denise!! The guy on the horse in post 3 appears to be Artillery and all pictures of this man seem consistent with this. He appears to have a farriers badge? in Post 1 number 2. Post 2 number 1 appears to be a ring in though. Don't know what uniform this is but seems a later period than the rest and not the same man. I also agree that the guy in the last post is the guy on the far left of the first photo.

Rgds

Tim

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Hi Tim

I'm fresh back from the PRO at Kew... and I failed miserably in finding anything of use on either of these two. Interesting you say photo number one looks later - I think I'm 99% certain now that's Edwin in the Scottish Rifles (anyone please... tell me if I'm wrong) - if it is, then it must've been circa 1912 - before the others were taken. I have confirmed today Edwin died 4th Sept 1912 in an accident in Malta (and has been wrongly commemorated on his now non-existent grave as Edward). Sadly Edwin's records must've been destroyed because he was dead... Sam's despite being in the Great War, seem to have been destroyed in WWII. I'm pretty gutted by that, to be honest. :(

I'm also not convinced by the guy in the first picture in my second post... he just doesn't look like either Edwin or Sam to me... and the uniform looks different, but I have no idea when it comes to uniform.

Tim, can I ask, sorry I'm totally unaware of all things military - you say Sam has a badge showing he is a farrier? Which badge is this? We knew he was a saddler and made leather boots, trades he learnt in the army - would he have had different badges for that sort of thing or would a farrier be a jack of all trades in the military?

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Denise

The man in photo number 2 is wearing a roughriders badge, it depicts a spur. I think they used to break in horses.

Photo No 4 appears to be a member of the St John's Ambulance Brigade.

Terry Reeves

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Terry

:o Crikey St John's?! He's a real fly in the ointment then, I have no idea who he is!!

Breaking in horses makes sense, we had heard that Sam trained horses.

Denise

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Right... a few phone calls to the family have confirmed that Edwin was "in a Scottish Regiment" so I'm 99% certain the top pic is of him and his comrades. Also confirmed that Edwin & Sam's brother George was a member of the St John Ambulance... so that sorts out that pic... getting there...slowly....

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Denise

The man in photo number 2 is wearing a roughriders badge, it depicts a spur. I think they used to break in horses.

Photo No 4 appears to be a member of the St John's Ambulance Brigade.

Terry Reeves

Terry is spot on Denise, the farrier badge as I recall now is a horseshoe.

Rgds

Tim

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Looking at the photo's again I wonder if the chap with the Roughrider's badge is in fact Samuel? His face seems far more angular and he appears to have rank, a Lance Bombardier or Lance Corporal. Is it possible this is another ring in Denise? Do you know when Samuel joined? The man in the dress uniform certainly looks like him and he looks quite a bit younger than the other photo's. There are only three listed at National Archives with Artillery connections. If he worked with horses I would lean towards him being the chap with the rank of Driver. He has the middle initial of G. Do you have a middle name Denise?

http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...=1&mediaarray=*

Rgds

Tim

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Do you know, I wondered that. The guy in the chair looks...well sick puts it politely I think. I'm told it's Samuel, but I can't prove it. No photos are annotated. The only thing I can say with any certainty is the dark hair and big ears are Pullen traits so if it isn't Sam then he's a relation... there were 6 brothers in total, Sam, Edwin who died in 1912, identified above, George - St John as above - Frederick who was a special constable, William Edward - don't know and Harry - again don't know. So out it could be a brother but I'm guessing. We hadn't heard anyone other than Sam was involved in horses - but the farrier side of it wouldn't really meet what Sam did, as we know he worked leather as a saddler/bootmaker... as I said above.

Sam didn't have a middle name - but then again neither did Harry, who decided to add one on his marriage certificate. I too would lean towards the driver... but I still can't say that with certainty.

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Sam's despite being in the Great War, seem to have been destroyed in WWII.  I'm pretty gutted by that, to be honest.  :(

Denese,

I'm probably teaching you to suck eggs, but which references did you look at when at Kew?

Fred

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Fred, I had to rely heavily on the research assistant there 'cos I've never looked in Kew before and didn't have a clue but I looked at:

WO97,5728 1900-1913 Pullen - Purcell J for Edwin's stuff

WO363 p 1704 Pullen Leonard - Pullen Walter E on microfilm for Samuel.

On the pics, Tim, you might be right, i've gone through the other pictures we have and I found these two - two blokes together in what looks like identical uniform. Now Sam was a bit of a shorty, and comparing to later pics of him, I'm pretty confident in the first pic Sam is the guy on the left standing. In the second it's more difficult to say. Can't think why our family would have pics of two guys together though unless they were related...not sure though if the "other" guy is the man with the roughriders badge. What do you think?

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Oh... and just to confuse matters even more - the first pic that we thought was Edwin in Scottish Rifles - there is an annotation on the back of it that says 1922. If it is 1922 then it can't be Edwin, he died 10 years earlier.

:blink:

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Denise,

Here are some more places to look if you go back to Kew:

WO363/ mis-sorts 94

WO364/3105, 3106, 4914, 5574, and 5803.

All the best

Fred

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Fred

Thanks a million! I suppose those are exactly what they say.. things that aren't where they're meant to be? I didn't really get much co-operation from Kew in the microfiche section i have to say... I felt a bit of a pratt not knowing what I was looking for and found myself with people talking Record Office speak but obviously my interpretation wasn't great!! I'll try harder next time I head there!

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Denise

WO 363 was a bit of a jumble so there were mis-sorted records. WO 364 is the class for men discharged, or died where some forms of pension due (as a regular Samuel may have qualified) there are 2 main series with miscellaneous files for each as well. Unfortunately there is a great disparity between the different microfilm/fiche staff at Kew, both to their helpfulness and to their level of knowledge. I have been there as some have directed people to the medal index cards when they are researching royal navy ratings or royal marines – it’s a bit much when they don’t know the basics of their own records! My eyes glaze over sometimes when they rattle off a spout of jargon, so in turn I sometimes offer a hand to people who look bewildered.

oh I forgot: look in the folder for Pin 26 (ministry of pensions) and to say I’d look in WO 97/5728 for all your Pullen relatives that were pre war regulars.

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check out the 3rd photo from the top, do you think there is a likeness to my great grandfather, who was an artillery man in the Boer and first war.

Jim

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Looks like the same uniform to me... Am no expert mind you... the neck looks slightly mroe open but my Sam looks like he hasn't got a wooly jumper on underneath like your great grandfather! The photo of Sam was taken in India, Madras, I believe, which might explain that! Pity he isn't wearing his cap with the badge on it though, which would probably really answer it.

the other pics with the cap don't really clearly show the badge... it looks a similar shape but I just can't see it closely enough to confirm.

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