H.M.S. "President II."

[jerryt]

I have a copy of the discharge papers for a member of my family, Henry Charles Hayman TURNER which show "Ship served in: HMS President II (wormwood Scrubs) (Crystal Palace)" He was discharged as medically unfit in June 1917. The references to Wormwood Scrubbs and Crystal Palace are puzzling as clearly an actual vessel would not be in eithr location, but HMS President II was and is an actual vessel currrently in Chatham Dockyard under the name of HMS Gannet.

[joseph]

Jerry,

Welcome to the forum, Henry's papers may be interesting as 'Wormwood Scrubs' was instumental in the development of the tank and armoured cars, what was his service number and rank?

Regards Charles

[horatio2]

HMS PRESIDENT II was a shore pay and administration office which handled the accounts of numerous out-stations including, in this case, men serving ashore at Crystal Palace and at Wormwood Scrubs. Forget GANNET - red herring.

[jerryt]

Thanks for the reply and welcome, Charles.

The copy of the discharge is difficult to read. Looks like his details are: List: 1415 No: 7734. In civilian life he was a gas fitter.

Jerry

[jerryt]

Many thanks, Joseph. It looks as though he nevr actually served at sea, then. I wonder how he managed to be discharged as medically unfit when he was just a pen pusher. He died in 1935 so could not have been too terminal an ailment.

Jerry

[joseph]

Jerry,

Thats his ships book number not his Service number, have a look on this site to see if you can find him;

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...amp;queryType=1

If you find him you can download his service certificates for 3.50

Regards Charles

[jerryt]

Thanks, Charles. I got the discharge details from the Naitonal Archives -mthe onloy document they have for him. No other number quoted, unfortunately.

Jerry

[mark franke]

Guys

awesome info. I have my great Uncle's Service record form the RNAS just got the copy from Kew

He also was assigned to Pressindent II but then to Daedalus which apears to be Cranwell.

Later assigned to Queen II in 1917( any ideas where that is?). Later was transfered to RAF anf went to Oranto, Italy.

So Queen II , I'm lost

Mark Franke

USA

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Queen II Parent ship of the RNAS in Southern Italy, based at Taranto, 1917- 31 March 1918 (when the RNAS were disolved).

For an old tech book see Macmillan, Norman: 'Offensive Patrol. The Story of the RNAS, RFC and RAF in Italy 1917-18'. (ISBN: 0091161800) London: Jarrolds, 1973.

The book is for sale on Abebooks .com (no US sellers) and amazon.com (2 US sellers at about 4 times the cheapest price on Abe, bought from overseas).

Edited 23 January , 2007 by per ardua per mare per terram

[mark franke]

Thanks so much

Mark Franke

quote name='per ardua per mare per terram' date='Jan 21 2007, 11:17 PM' post='603893']

Queen II Parent ship of the RNAS in Southern Italy, based at Taranto, 1917- 31 March 1918 (when the RNAS were disolved).

For an old tech book see Macmillan, Norman: 'Offensive Patrol. The Story of the RNAS, RFC and RAF in Italy 1917-18'. (ISBN: 0091161800) London: Jarrolds, 1973.

The book is for sale on Abebooks .com (no US sellers) and amazon.com (2 US sellers at about 4 times the cheapest price on Abe)

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Some of the Story of the RNAS, RFC and RAF in Italy is also in 'The War in the Air' the RAF Official History, but spread over several volumes.

[Chris_Baker]

I've just seen the service record of a RNR man who joined President II which is referred to as the "RN Naval Base Port Said". This was late 1915.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

He was possibly connected with the East Indies and Egypt Seaplane Squadron.

[gothic69]

I have a copy of the discharge papers for a member of my family, Henry Charles Hayman TURNER which show "Ship served in: HMS President II (wormwood Scrubs) (Crystal Palace)" He was discharged as medically unfit in June 1917. The references to Wormwood Scrubbs and Crystal Palace are puzzling as clearly an actual vessel would not be in eithr location, but HMS President II was and is an actual vessel currrently in Chatham Dockyard under the name of HMS Gannet.

Wormwood Scrubs was the HQ for the Royal Naval Armoured Car Division of the RNAS up to its disbandment in 1915, it was based at the Daily Mail airship hanger but most of the base was at the Clement-Talbot Motor Works in Barlby Road, Notting Hill. After the disbandment of the RNACD No20 Squadron stayed there doing experimental work mostly on the development of the tank.

Ian

[Guest Wyldbore]

This has been a fascinating and useful thread - thankyou from this non-Service newbie.

My reason for joining this site? I have obtained my Grandfather's service record (just the single page) for the RNAS (with transfer to RAF of course - so his service number went from F4918 to 204918) via the NA, and Mr Swales at Yeovilton generously provided some other information from the RAF Muster Roll. (There is another service number written in next to the reference to President - 11847, but I may be misreading a date rference.)

Grandfather was Ernest Parker WYLDBORE, born August 1887 at Castor nr Peterborough. He died in London in 1928, leaving a widow and four sons. His record shows that he started his service life at President (Wormwood Scrubs) on 14 May 1915 as a Petty Officer Mech [Mechanic??] to 24 Feb 1916 and later service is shown as follows:

Daidalus 25 Feb 1916 to 31 May 1916 (?)

Later entries show

Dover Group 25/2/18

Dunkurque 27-2-18

Dunkirk 25/2/18

[unreadable]

Bray Dunes - 3 March 18

Transfer to Squad 4 - 7/3/18

Aircraft Depot (to sea) 10/3/18

Transferred to Sqdn No. 9 27/3/18

No 9 Sqad 28/3/18

Throughout are refs to President II, and - of course - 'See Card Index' - which no longer exists I think. If someone can enlighten me about these movements, I'd be very grateful. Did he really get to France?

Then a note in the far right column (after all the annual reports on Character and Ability - consistently 'VG' and 'Sat' respectively!) that he was trnsfer to the RAF.

He went in as a Tyre Repairer, was shown in the RAF Muster as 'Vulcaniser' and rated as a 'Sergeant Machanic'. All for the term of the war.

Family story says he was gassed in the war, which lead to his early death, but unless there was an incident at Bray Dunes, Northern France - and I haven't found a reference yet - I wonder if that was the case, or whether he was injured at some point elsewhere. Medical records won't exist now.

Given there are links with the AirShips at the bases shown on his record, could he have worked on those? Or what would his 'mechanic' job have been? I'd love to know more about his work in WW1. My father is still alive (nearly 90) and I'd like to give him more info on his father, as he was only seven when Ernest died and has no memory of him.

Sorry to presume on your collective patience and kindness to such a huge extent, and look forward to your responses.

Many thanks - Jean Wyldbore, Victoria, Australia

[Guest Leawood]

As I understand it, the H.M.S President II wasn't a ship but a navy base in London ( for training ) Does anyone have any information about the role of the H.M.S President in Greece ( The Macedonian front ) 1917. I have recently visited a WW1 military cemetry in North Greece ( Strom cemetery, Serres , Greece) where 933 British service men are resting. One of the headstones reads William Hugh Woollhead. 1159 H.M.S. President 11 27th May 1917. Anyone know what role The President played in Macedonia ? Greece

[horatio2]

HMS PRESIDENT played no role in Macedonia. Chief Petty Officer Mechanic Woollhead, M.4159, was serving in Greece with 2 Wing RNAS and was borne on the books of HMS PRESIDENT II (in London) as described in several earlier posts.

[Guest 1SQ]

Hi all,

I just found this great forum and getting myself familiar about WWI. I am a newbie in the research, since this is not my habitual topic. I find the information here very useful. The subject I am researching has a very close friend whose record I found in the National Archives. He served in the RNVR and I would appreciate very much if you guys could help me to read the record.

He was serving in Anti-Aircraft [from what I can find so far] and he was in the Hostilities-only battalion in 1916. I am intrigued about the the column of List and No., that he had two numbers, and about the Rating category, which is "AB." That's my first two questions.

Then he was in President, which I assume to be President I, the annotation says something like "Ldn Mobile." Does it make any sense? (3rd Q)

He only served for 6 months and was discharged on the ground of being an alien. He was born in America. Was that common practice? (4th Q) But at the same time there was a stamp for "Traced War Gratuity by no. 89." It means that he got war gratuity? (5th Q) From biographies I gather that he was serving also in 1914, and then everything got very complicated, and eventually he became a persona non grata in Britain.

Thanks very much. Your help would mean a lot to me.

[suebobh]

My Grandfather was HMS President, then in brackets (Grain), then later Eastern Mediterranean. He was Arthur Edward Payne no F11257. Does anyone have any information.

[horatio2]

Borne on the books of HMS PRESIDENT for service at the Royal Naval Air Station, Grain, Kent.

His RNAS record here:- http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6809433

Transferred to the RAF April 1918. RAF record here:- http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12254015

Victory and British War Medals issued by the Air Ministry.

[RobinGee]

28th July 1915 there was a hydrogen explosion the killed two and injured many including one of my family. They were mechanics working on airships at the time

[KizmeRD]

RIP 

Air Mechanic 2nd Class George W C Heydon RNAS. Buried at Folkstone (Cheriton Rd) Cemetery. Aged 21.

Air Mechanic 1st Class Frederick J Westerman RNAS. Memorial at Hammersmith Old Cemetery. Aged 28.

MB