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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Lawrence Stuart Rowland mm 11th Sussex 16744 help


arantxa

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ive been looking at this chap who was a W02 and a company sergeant major he was from Rye  i cant work out when he joined the 11th Sussex or what he got his mm for

im not really sure what a WO2 is either any info would be great..i think he also got a wound badge 

Thanks 

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HI arantxa.

This article in the Mid Sussex Times 2nd October 1917 could refer to Lawrence looking at the date the award was was gazetted at this link https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30340/supplement/10727/data.htm Unfortunately I am unable to find a citation. 

I note that on the MM MIC his surname is Rowlands, with an S, which differs from other records. 

A Warrant Officer (WO) in the British Army is a member of the highest group of non-commissioned ranks, holding the King's (or Queen's) warrant. A Sergeant Major is a Warrant Officer. 

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08F27904-D8F2-4E6B-9FA3-6B21EE288C4B_4_5005_c.jpeg

Edited by Gunner 87
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thats great thank you  especially the paper article how do you find things like that

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5 minutes ago, arantxa said:

thats great thank you  especially the paper article how do you find things like that

Well I hope it is him..... Find My Past have an excellent newspaper section. Rarely can you not find a soldier even if it is just a casualty list. Regarding the latter I have been unable to find Lawrence in the SWB list or WOWCL's... 

Edit... Purley Oaks is some distance from Ockendon, Cuckfield. 

Edited by Gunner 87
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This article confirms the above is Lawrence ... Mid Sussex Times 22nd January 1918

8AEF2F17-BAB9-4259-AB0B-CDF319276E9F_4_5005_c.jpeg

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i think i may join that i have been on ancestry for years but do you think find my past is better

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I have been through the 11th Sussex War Diary from the beginning of April 1917 and no ref, as far as I can see, to Rowland or his MM. There is a list of MMs at the end of Oct but he is not on that list. 

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3 minutes ago, arantxa said:

i think i may join that i have been on ancestry for years but do you think find my past is better

This article makes for an interesting read Sussex Agricultural Express 17th August 1917. I wonder if the was the action to which the MM was awarded for. 

FMP offer a free 7 day trial that could be useful to you....

4B0BBB1D-A662-44D2-8841-F366563BD3CE.jpeg

Edited by Gunner 87
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Hi

Firstly mark thank you for for going to all that trouble and Gunner 87 that is fantastic i think i will do as you advised and do a weeks trial

Do you think he means Lewis Gun teams

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31 minutes ago, arantxa said:

Hi

Firstly mark thank you for for going to all that trouble and Gunner 87 that is fantastic i think i will do as you advised and do a weeks trial

Do you think he means Lewis Gun teams

I think so as Vickers were operated by the MGC... Lewis Guns were infantry battalion weapons... (I hope that is right anyway, ready to stand corrected by our experts in this field)

Edited by Gunner 87
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It looks like the 3rd Battle of Ypres. The 11 Sussex moved to "Hilltop" on 28/7/17 and were in action for several days. Completely relieved by 1230 am on 3/8/17. 31st July saw 150 OR casualties. Ref is made to the River Steenbeck. So that is the area. The newspaper report seems consistent with this. A 2-3 month lead time before London Gazette posting is a fairly usual timescale. So a definite possibility

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Thank you so muck for all your effort it’s very appreciated 

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  • 6 months later...

Hi Lawrence Rowland was my Grandfather. He was in France and then was sent to Russia, Archangel, as part of the British Expeditionary Force. I still have the brandy flask, when I was small it still had trench mud on it , but that has fallen out now. I have never before seen the letter that he wrote to my Gran. 
Strangely today, I discovered a post card written to him in France by his sister Nancy. It was amongst about 1000 completely unrelated cards and I have no idea how it got there. It is a PC of Ockenden where he was a gardener, something I didn’t know before. This led to me doing some searching and here I am! 
He continued gardening, all his life, travelling about as jobs came and went, and ended up near Rye just before WW11, he died in about 1963/4

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This is the flask. When I was a child I can remember there still being trench mud amongst the weave, bits of which would fall out into the drawer where it was kept. Grandad wouldn’t let my Nan clean it!

The signet ring was also my Grandads, he wore it throughout the war and my son has a photo of him in uniform where the ring is visible. 

IMG_3674.jpeg

IMG_3673.jpeg

IMG_3675.jpeg

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I have sent you a private message becouse if sone one had my Grandfathers medals I would want them 

CC58D713-2F0B-4E1C-92C9-08FBD5FE80BB.jpeg

C07F5FC3-F404-4FD0-95A3-1C02B5CDE9A2.jpeg

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Yes , I’ve not seen either news clipping before and I’m sure my mother didn’t know about them.

It’s all been a bit of an emotional whirlwind, and now we are getting his Military Medal back. Unbelievable. So grateful to everyone that spends time researching. 

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It’s good that it’s going back to family that’s where these things belong 

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I’m still reeling and gobsmacked. We have known the medal was missing for nearly 50 years, but I have a suspicion it was sold to pay for my Grandfathers funeral in the early 60s. He had been dreadfully ill for a long time and they weren't well off so he would have persuaded my Nan to sell it well before he actually died, then she covered up the fact by hiding the other medals away and pretending not to want to get them out. Fills in some jigsaw bits. 
I’m very grateful to everyone who added a bit to this thread with more info about France and the cuttings. 

Thankyou

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14 hours ago, arantxa said:

It’s good that it’s going back to family that’s where these things belong 

Well  done Arantxa  you are a gentleman

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On 26/04/2023 at 13:14, Gunner 87 said:

HI arantxa.

This article in the Mid Sussex Times 2nd October 1917 could refer to Lawrence looking at the date the award was was gazetted at this link https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30340/supplement/10727/data.htm Unfortunately I am unable to find a citation. 

I note that on the MM MIC his surname is Rowlands, with an S, which differs from other records. 

A Warrant Officer (WO) in the British Army is a member of the highest group of non-commissioned ranks, holding the King's (or Queen's) warrant. A Sergeant Major is a Warrant Officer. 

F364EBA0-F8A4-4517-98EC-5B7BBC80AE8E_4_5005_c.jpeg

08F27904-D8F2-4E6B-9FA3-6B21EE288C4B_4_5005_c.jpeg

 

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