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Pte. J. Freethy


theodore

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Private 9316 J. Freethy 2nd Bn. Worcestershire Regiment was declared a deserter on 14th Nov. 1915. The 1914 Star Roll has no medal written in pencil on left hand margin and the details about desertion in the remarks column. No BW & V Medal Roll record found (on Ancestry) for him but Absent Voters list has him listed , Freethy, Joseph Jacob 9316 Pte., Worceters.

If he was still a serving soldier (1918-19) why did he not receive the BW & V Medals?

Would have been entitled to the 1914 Star at a later date?

Peter

 

 

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1 hour ago, theodore said:

Would have been entitled to the 1914 Star at a later date?

Yes, in all probability but as with all things Great Wr (and bureaucracy) it can get complicated.

This earlier thread may be of interest

 

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courtesy fmp

 

 

1853B09A-9687-41F9-A86B-6FE16092D680.jpeg

Edited by Coldstreamer
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Fold3-thanks to them

Full Name Freethy, J

Report Date 26 May 1915

Further Information This man was entitled to wear a "Wound Stripe" as authorised under the Army Order 204 of 6th July 1916. The terms of this award being met by their naming in this list.

Information Listed as "Wounded" on the Casualty List issued by the War Office from the 26th May 1915.

Rank Name Private

Service Number 9316

Duty Location France and Flanders

Service British Army

Primary Unit Worcestershire Regiment

Secondary Unit 2nd Battalion

and

Full Name Freethy, J

Report Date 29 Oct 1914

Further Information This man was entitled to wear a "Wound Stripe" as authorised under Army Order 204 of 6th July 1916. The terms of this award being met by their naming in this list.

Information Listed as being at "1st Eastern General Hospital, Cambridge" on the 29th October 1914.

Rank Name Private

Service Number 9316

Service British Army

Primary Unit Worcestershire Regiment

 

George

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8 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said:

courtesy fmp

Coldstreamer could you give the URL please?

George

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I might be missing the point here but the record is simply one of those casualty lists that pop up from time to time in a man's Service Record and has nothing to do whatsoever with the man himself, so I am not not sure why there is an interest in Toplis.

The List is here (courtesy of FMP) showing that Freethy was resident in the No 2 Canadian Stationary Hospital on 24th May 1915.

Russ

 

Freethy.jpg

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As in Fold3 listing above.

Thanks Coldstreamer seen it now

George

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hopefully Ive removed the confusing bits that I posted in error

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From FMP Bromsgrove and Droitwich Messenger 12 dec 14

image.png

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there are other things but nothing to explain the medals

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Thanks to all for info. I have the wounded  info (fold3) but none the wiser regards medals not being issued.

Coldstreamer  what other things ?

Regards

Peter

Edited by theodore
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8 hours ago, theodore said:

none the wiser regards medals not being issued.

His medals were forfeit as a deserter.  We don't know if he was ever caught but if not he was unlikely to have come forward. The annotation "No Medals" on the 14 Star Roll was the situation when the Roll was compiled on 10th May 1918.

I would suggest he was in hiding when the AVL was compiled and relatives submitted the details to maintain the subterfuge.

The link previously posted refers  to the decision to reinstate these medals in August 1920. The BWM and VM Roll for the Worcestershire Regiment was dated 15th September 1920 I'd suggest he was still listed as a deserter and therefore  was not included in the Roll.

You may wish to consider Pte. 10218 A.V. Goldsby, he was convicted of desertion on the 4th August 1915 and his entry on the 14 Star Roll Worcestershire Regiment was shown as 'Forfeited'.  Following the AO referred to in the linked post a supplementary roll was compiled dated February 28 1921 and his 14 Star was reinstated

That Roll is here on Ancestry if you subscribe

He was also awarded the BWM and VM again on a Roll dated 28th February 1921.

The main difference is that he was convicted of desertion and presumably returned to the ranks after serving whatever penalty his conviction attracted.

There is no doubt a more detailed browse of the 14 Star Roll will give further examples.

The short answer to your original question is if he was dealt with as a deserter the medlas were forfeit until the previously cited Army Order when they could have been re-instated.  If he was awarded the 14 Star then there was an automatic entitlement to the other two, the date of qualification being the date he first entered a theatre of war.

It does appear that his medals remained forfeit, probably because he made no attempt to claim them. Whether or not they would be issued now to next of kin is another matter.

 

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Reports of wounds but nothing about desertion or medals that I saw 

 

I tried police gazettes but found nothing 

 

and the absent voters , if he was on the run he would still be in the army from that perspective 

 

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On 05/04/2023 at 16:49, theodore said:

Absent Voters list has him listed , Freethy, Joseph Jacob 9316

Please could you say which Absent voter's list?

George

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Ah-found it. Borough of Islington

George

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This is, I think, part the family of J Freethy in 1911. There is no Joseph Jacob but there is a John though who is a reservist.

First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Freethy
Head
Married Male 51 1860 Pianoforte turner Clerkenwell
Amelia Freethy
Wife
Married Female 48 1863 - Spitalfields
John Freethy
Son
Single Male 24 1887 Reservist Spitalfields

I can't imagine how this may help us though!

George

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Thank you all for your feedback. 

I expected to find a supplementary roll like the one for Goldsby (and many others) so it looks like he never applied for his medals or never returned to the Army and remained a deserter.

However if he was a deserter for the remaining war period why no record (other than MIC and 14 Star Roll)?

Peter

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Have you tried tracing him or managed to trace him  on the 1921 census ?

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Yes and I think he is at his parents but I don't have findmypast subscription (only Ancestry) to confirm. Parents Joseph William and Amelia named plus Jacob and 2 others. Checked 1921 Electoral Register but only Joseph and Amelia named but 1924 ER Joseph, Amelia and George Victor named (younger brother of Jacob).

 

 

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1 hour ago, theodore said:

Yes and I think he is at his parents

Hello.

I have checked the 1921 Census and found the following at 14 Stonefield Street, Islington. 

Head, Joseph William Freethy, born 1859. 

Wife, Amelia Freethy, born 1862. 

Daughter, Janie Frances Freethy, born 1902.

Grandfather, Jacob Solomons, born 1836.

Son, Victor George Freethy, born 1901.

I have checked the Census for a John , Joseph or Jacob Freethy which didn't return any results.

Hope that is of some use. 

 

Edited by Gunner 87
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8 hours ago, theodore said:

Yes thank you, it confirms he wasn't at parents at that time.

Probably keeping his head down with his wife

It appears he married in 1913

jjfreethy.JPG.d1fe96232e0bc47136c7ee99a06d7098.JPG

Which in no way assists with the initial query

 

Ray

 

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Where was Ethel in 1921 or 1939?

George

Any children?

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George 

At this point in time  (1939)  I believe Joseph Jacob Freethy was living under an alias   "Freeman James"

There is a death record  for Joseph

freethydeath.JPG.9f5ff8a2556411fee5e180ac91c1df78.JPG

which gives a date of birth of 12th Jan 1888

searching the 1939 register with  Free* and 12th Jan 1888

1939freethy.JPG.222b254bf6d708ed9e1ec876be3671ea.JPG

gives us Freeman James "Motor driver" as  Joseph Jacob's marraige,   wife ethel Freeman (Freethy) residing at Wansworth London

Ray

 

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Interesting and thanks

George

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