Understanding an RND (RNVR) record card.

[keithmroberts]

Despite my years I have hardly ever had to work on one of these.

I have an issue that I would appreciate help with. I have attached the record card of Pte Albert Payne. he clearly lied about his date of birth because he was definitely born in 1899, not 97 as he claimed. However my  concern is with the entry at the top of side or card 2  which reads "RND/7595. Detached from Anson battn.  to Stavros while serving with MEF."

This entry comes without a date, and it is clear from the next 2 lines that at some point he found himself back at Blandford in September 1915.

So: should there be a record of earlier service with the Anson Battalion, and if so where should I look?

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

Keith

ADM-339-2-3575 record card.pdf

[horatio2]

That is his only RNVR/RND record online but the Fleet Air Arm Museum will hold his Tyneside RNVR enlistment papers and other documents (eg Army Form B.103).

Looking at the ADM 339 record, it is clear that this rating (an Able Seaman - not a Private!) served with Anson Battalion during his front-line service, joining the Ansons at Mudros a month after  the evacuation of Gallipoli. Although the RND maintained garisons on the Aegean islands during the first months of 1916, they also sent four battalions (Anson, Howe, 1/RMLI and 2/RMLI: the 2nd Bde RND) to Stavros for the Salonika operations. Anson Battalion left Mudros for Stavros (along with No.3 Field Coy, RNDE) on 20 February 1916 and returned to Mudros on 2 April.

Edited 20 March , 2023 by horatio2

[horatio2]

1 hour ago, keithmroberts said:

he clearly lied about his date of birth because he was definitely born in 1899, not 97 as he claimed

AS the RNDRC shows, his under-age status was discovered at the Calais Base Depot and he was shipped back to UK. Held in reserve battalions at Blandford, 14 months would pass before he was sent back to the BEF only to be killed in action after six months with the Ansons.

There is an indication that he served in 'D' Coy of Anson Bn.

His father claimed his WW114/15 Star trio of medals

Edited 20 March , 2023 by horatio2

[horatio2]

His full record of drafts:-

Enlisted 17/7/15 ;  21/7/15 'B' Coy 3rd (Training) Bn. then 'D' Coy 5th (Training) Bn @ Crystal Palace ; 23/9/15 to 7th (Reserve) Bn. @ Blandford Camp ;  Draft for MEF 5/12/15, joined Anson Battalion at Mudros 5/2/16-27/11/16 (includes Satvros 20/2/16 - 2/4/16 ; 15/5/16 Mudros to BEF per HT Minnewaska ; Influenza, joined Base Depot Calais 16/12/16, to UK from Base Depot Calais Under-age 11/1/17 ; Served in 2nd and 3rd (Reserve) Bns. @ Blandford ; Draft for BEF 2/4/18, joined Anson Battalion 7/4/18-1/10/18 Discharged Dead.

[keithmroberts]

That fills the story out and then some. Thank you very much Horatio2.  I'm gathering up his experience for his sister's grandson and great grandson, and will be taking the grandson to the places where he served on the Western Front, hopefully in the Autumn. I have downloaded the Anson battalion war diary and will see if I can get  copies of the docs from Yeovilton. The great grandson is now my MP, and has taken quite an interest in matters Naval, and was briefly one of the shadow defence team.

Thank's again.

 

Edited 20 March , 2023 by keithmroberts

[keithmroberts]

I contacted Yeovilton regarding documents, and this is the reply:

"We hold the enrolment form and two casualty forms for Albert George Alfred Payne as well as the original record cards. For digitisation we charge £50 per 20 sides and a single £20 processing fee, all excluding VAT, so it would be circa £84 for digitisation all in. As the enrolment papers and casualty forms only come to 5 sides I would be happy to throw in digitisations of the record cards as well."

No criticism at all is intended of the archivist, and I do understand that the NMRN is an independent charity that  has to pay its way, but this level of charge, £84  for an individual's record is prohibitive for most, and surely as a result they must get few paying customers.  Surely they would be better striking a deal with either Ancestry or FindMyPast to get these records digitised.

[horatio2]

Step back a few years to pre-2018 and the FAAM (N.B. NOT NMRN) would have charged about £20 for colour hard copies. I expect NMRN is trying to make up for five years of providing no service at all, plus the refusal of HLF funding to re-establish the RM Museum in the dockyard.

I am sorry my recommendation has produced such a customer offer. Rip-off!

[Keith_history_buff]

Someone I know wanted some bulk copying done at The National Archives. They were quoted a certain figure. A researcher, who provides the ArcRe service, was able to do this for one tenth of the fee. I do see the copying pricing policy as something that balances the scarce resources of manpower against providing a service to the public whilst meeting other objectives.

I am presently unaware of any researchers to go to FAAM Yeovilton who would be able to order the documents and copy them, unfortunately. I gather that prior to COVID, a researcher could pay £15 for a day ticket that permitted unlimited copying. (Portsmouth History Centre were charging £10 in 2017,)

Although the archive reopened in 2022, the ability to contact them via their website was not "enabled" was a hindrance last year. I am glad they have changed their website.