Border Regiment

[John_Hartley]

John

From the Regimental History for the day :-

"the night was passed in reorganising and in preparing for the attack expected next morning. This came about 7.30am on the 22nd when the Germans got into Vaulx Wood on the right of the 8th Border Regiment, which was then surrounded on three sides, but for four hours "B" "A" and "C" Companies of the Battalion maintained their position aganist heavy odds, only falling back when their right was in the air, the division on the left had retired and communication with the Brigade and the guns had been broken; the withdrawal was then carried out to the Vaulx-Fremicourt road and the remnants of the Battalion was reorganised in the Army line. Some of these gallant souls never returned, for 2nd Lts Oakden adn Fentiman and 24 other ranks refused to fall back and so remained - to the end. This day 2nd Lts Dowdall, McTavish and Warwick were killed..........

Interestingly, I can't find any mention of the MC in the usually comprehensive listings in the 25th Division History. I'd have expected an award gazetted in April to have related to an event about 3 months before but 8/Border was having nice quiet time of it then. Possibly it goes back to action in October. I presume you're sure he didnt win it whilst with another unit?

John

John

[John Butt]

Many thanks for the information about Ernest Dowdell.

We are waiting for some papers from the National Archives which may give us more about his Military Cross. There must be a story of how he went from being a Private in the 20th London to a 2nd Lt in the Border Regt. We have some photos of him at an unknown military hospital which we are restoring at present.

We'll heep you informed.

Again many thanks

John

[John Butt]

The papers from the National Archives arrived this morning. The last entry was correspondence in 1931 when a lady wrote to the War Office that she had a German friend who saw E.G. Dowdell fall. That friend had in his posession Ernest's prayer book and wished to return it to a surviving relative. I now need to plough through the rest of the papers.

John

[Guest peter cooper]

Hi Croon. Any info on KINGS OWN SCOTTISH BORDERERS, 30th Nov 1917? Thx peter

[John_Hartley]

Peter

The thread is Border Regiment, not KOSB.

John

[cockney tone]

Dave,

sorry about this but perhaps going slightly 'off thread' does your Regimental History only cover the Great War as I am researching my grandad who was in the 1st Borders during the Boer War?

Regards,

Scottie.

[John_Hartley]

Scottie

The History is only GW. The regimental museum @ Carlisle will, almost certainly, have info about the BW.

John

[owilki1984]

Hi Dave,

I know this thread is a bit old now but if you are still willing to do look-ups you would be doing me a big favour. I’m interested in two guys:

The First is:

A/Cpl William Herbert Hartley (11th Bn Borders), who died of wounds on the 26th Nov 1917. If can could give me any details on him, or more likely what the 11th were up to in November 1917 and especially on the 26th, I would very much appreciate it.

The Second is:

2nd Lt Arthur Armer (Attached 11th Borders) killed on 5th Sept 1917 (war diary has the date as the 6th). Again any information on Armer, or what the unit was up to on the date in question, and immediately before would be great.

Thanks in advance, I hope you can help.

Regards

Oli

[CROONAERT]

As per my announcement - I'm no longer doing "look-ups" on this thread.

Sorry!

Dave.

Sorry Oli. I'm going to have to stick by my announcement of 3 years ago or risk getting swamped again.

Any takers (John?)?

Dave.

[Peter Shand]

Hi Oli,

According to Col H C Wylly in his The Border Regiment in the Great War:

1. p. 173 - At the end of November [1917] the Lonsdales were in the Bellevue area, where they took several casualties on the 25th during relief in the trenches, 12 men killed, 3 officers and 12 OR wounded and 7 missing. Only the three wounded officers are named. The next action referred to was on 2nd December near Wurst Farm.

2. p. 173 - In the latter part of August and beginning of September [the 11 th Battalion] was at Oost Dunkerque, where the camp was heavily shelled by a long-range, high-velocity gun, the transport lines being hit and 4 officers' chargers killed. After this the enemy shelling became more regular and hardly a day passed without casualties, 1 officer (Second-Lieutenant A. Armer) and 8 other ranks being killed, Second- Lieutenant D. Walker and 18 NCO's and men being wounded during September. On the 6th October, the Battalion went by barge and road to Teteghem, where nearly three weeks were passed.

Not much detail, I'm afraid, but at least the history does pin down where your two men were.

By the way, Wylly's book, written in 1924, has been reprinted and is available at Amazon, UK.

Pete

[owilki1984]

Hi Pete,

Cheers for this information. Every little helps.

Thanks for you time.

Just an after thought could I have the date of publication and publisher of the book you refer to (sorry to be pain)

Oli

[Peter Shand]

Hi Oli, The modern reprint is ISBN-84342-540-8 and published by The Naval & Military Press, Unit 10 Ridgewood Industrial Park, Uckfield, East Sussex, TN22 5QE, England. Website is www.naval-military-press.com. I purchased my copy through Amazon UK who, I understand, support this forum.

Pete

[owilki1984]

Cheers Pete

[kerrychris]

Oli,

I would agree that the book by Col H C Wylly, The Border Regiment in the Great War definitely has some interesting facts about the battalion. I used this book to help write a story about my great grandfather and the Lonsdales. It might not be of any use to you but you could have a look out of interest here...