Pte 1163 John Butchart , 1st Bn Black Watch (Royal Highlanders ) wrongly listed

[patrick anderson]

I am wondering why the Soldiers died in the Great war  - Black Watch roll lists Pte 1163 John BUTCHART  as Pte  BURCHER and the Medal  Card card shows his name as being  PTE  JAMES  BUTCHART  . 2nd Black watch and then the Medal roll for the BRITISH WAR  & VICTORY MEDAL  records the name of  James  Butchart  but the service number of 1163 and the1914 star medal  listing him as  BUTCHART   J and 1163 service number .  The CWGC index lists him as  only  Pte 1163   J BUTCHART  of the  1st Bn  Black  Watch..  Sadly the  Scottish National  War Memorial at the Edinburgh castle lists him as Pte  1163  JOHN  BUTCHER and not  BURCHART . 

Mr  Butchart snr was a retired Naval man and Coast guard officer of  40 years and he had  6 sons in the  War of WW1 and another son  , Pte  123  JAMES  BUTCHART  ,  Australians   ( missing taken POW and returned to  Australia in 1919 and applied for WW1 and Lapel Badge in  1967 .. 

Any ideas on why  the Medal Rollls have  his first name wrong and why the Black  Watch Soldiers died  book record him as being  Pte  1163 J  BUTCHER  and not  yes  BUTCHART .  

Pte  Butchart was killed in action  on 24th April  1916 , .

Thank you all for your ideas and maybe just errors at the Medal Roll office

best wishes  patrick w anderson

[Tom Lang]

Hello Pat,

I'd say it was typos (due to illiteracy, etc.) and the transcription errors continued over time to make things worse.

The SNWM will amend (as you know) with supporting documentation.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

[patrick anderson]

Thanks  Tom    Did not realise that there were so many Bad errors in a Medal  Roll and even to get the Name of the  Soldier  Wrong .  Like  BUTCHER  instead of   BUTCHART  .  Even the Black  Watch  Soldiers died in the  Great  War has his Name spelt  Wrong ...

I recalll that  the  Scots  Guards soldier  Pte  David Bain MacLennan  was recalled to the  Regiment on 4th  August  1914 from the Northumberland  County  Constabulary the army decided that  he and his Mac named soldiers would be all spelt MC so he was wrongly named  McLennan

thanks for your reply and thought on this story and yes  the change  for the  SNWM will be easy

 

pat w anderson

 

[FredJCarss]

When you have studied the many rolls for the regiment (medal, hospital, casualty, killed, CWGC )  you soon realise that you can’t take anything for granted. The Mc and Mac, Thompson and Thomson etc are commonly wrong. The rolls are just as good as the person writing.

The real problem is working out what is correct. When you are researching you just have to explore all the variations.

Happy hunting.

Fred

[sadbrewer]

This should be interesting if you haven't seen it...from The British Newspaper Archive.

 

 

Edited 12 May , 2023 by sadbrewer

[patrick anderson]

Thank You  Fred for that great info and the newspaper reports too and dates of them .  Seems that the medal  Office just wrote anything as one  medal roll has  his first name as  John and another  James but i think that it may have been J  and someone has put  in the first names of John and on the other  James . Odd but this is the first time ive come across the Medal  Roll with wrong info but  as we know  the serviceman works on his  Service Number  .....

Thanks for your great help in this matter

 Pat w anderson

I used to be in the police in lanarkshire   (  Carluke  ) and a spellat   HQ in  GLasgow in the  1970s

 

[Tom Lang]

WILLIAM BUTCHART, age 28, Seaman, and ANN CRAIG, age 26, were married on 3 October, 1881, at St Andrew (Dundee).

Children of the marriage:

BUTCHART WILLIAM         1883 ST ANDREWS AND ST LEONARDS
BUTCHART ANNIE           1885 ST ANDREWS AND ST LEONARDS
BUTCHART GEORGE*         1887 ST ANDREWS AND ST LEONARDS
BUTCHART LILLY JANE      1888 ST ANDREWS AND ST LEONARDS
BUTCHART JOHN*           1890 OLD ABERDEEN
BUTCHART ARNOT           1896 FRASERBURGH
BUTCHART GORDON          1899 CRIMOND
BUTCHART JAMES CRAIG*    1914 FORFAR
BUTCHART MARGARET MICHIE 1917 FORFAR

The birth record of BUTCHART ARNOT shows his father WILLIAM as 'Coastguard'.

Note that BUTCHART JAMES CRAIG* was born in 1914, so cannot be the "Jas. Butchart" in the newspaper.

Hence BUTCHART JOHN* is the likely candidate.

It is probable that "Guy Butchart" in the newspaper is GEORGE*.

Tom.

[patrick anderson]

thanks for that note  and queries to query even more , Just shows you that the info in the papers  may be wrong with in this case  names that do not tie up  with the family ,

best wishes  slainte  

pat

[patrick anderson]

i have received a communication from the  Scottish  National  War Memorial    the castle   Edinburgh informing me that  Pte  1163  John  BUTCHART   1st  Black  Watch  killled in action on  26tg  April  1916 is now accepted as a casualty of the SNWM and his name  AMENDED  as it was recorded as  PTE  JOHN BUTCHER and thankfully with the documents of birth certificate etc  the name of John BUTCHART  is now to be recorded on the roll of the Black  Watch  for the  WW1 and the error corrected . 

sadly the soldiers died and the  Black watch in the  Great war  by  Wauchope records  the soldier as being  BUTCHER and yes not showing his correct spelling but the SNWM will in due course be on the website showing the correct spellling  as   BUTCHART  . 

 

thank you for your help in this matter 

[sadbrewer]

4 hours ago, patrick anderson said:

i have received a communication from the  Scottish  National  War Memorial    the castle   Edinburgh informing me that  Pte  1163  John  BUTCHART   1st  Black  Watch  killled in action on  26tg  April  1916 is now accepted as a casualty of the SNWM and his name  AMENDED  as it was recorded as  PTE  JOHN BUTCHER and thankfully with the documents of birth certificate etc  the name of John BUTCHART  is now to be recorded on the roll of the Black  Watch  for the  WW1 and the error corrected . 

sadly the soldiers died and the  Black watch in the  Great war  by  Wauchope records  the soldier as being  BUTCHER and yes not showing his correct spelling but the SNWM will in due course be on the website showing the correct spellling  as   BUTCHART  . 

 

thank you for your help in this matter 

Great result!!

[Derek Black]

Good job Pat. 
 

I see every correction to made on the cwgc/SNWM as a way to continue to remember them.

[patrick anderson]

thanks  Derek and yes our famous  Black  Watch soldier with a wrong spelling even on the Black  Watch great war book listing the Casualties and soldiers died in the  Great  War also listing him as  BUTCHER and not   BUTCHART .

Hes on the Scottish  Episcopal church war memorial at  Carnoustie with the correct spelling of  BUTCHART . 

 

greetings to you all on this famous website

slainte 

patrick w anderson