thedawnpatrol Posted 24 January , 2023 Share Posted 24 January , 2023 Flight Sub Lt. Wilfred Perham RNAS Lt. Herbert Nelson Hawker RFC / RAF Lt Wilfred Montague Smith RFC /RAF i have found Royal Aero Club photos of all three of them, Perham, 1545 8/5/1915 Smith, 3123 23/6/1916 Hawker 5433 24/8/1917 any more information would be great, thank you.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 January , 2023 Share Posted 24 January , 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, thedawnpatrol said: Flight Sub Lt. Wilfred Perham RNAS Wilfrid according to his RNAS and RAF records - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=wilf*&_ep=perham&_cr=adm*|air 76&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv and the RN Officers' Medal Roll. (He claimed a 1914-15 Star from the Admiralty, his BW and Victory Medals being issued by the Air Ministry.) https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4599049 Edited 24 January , 2023 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 24 January , 2023 Share Posted 24 January , 2023 (edited) Perham. Unusual name so is it this man? 1919 bounties. Courtesy Findmypast newspapers Note he was interned in Holland 23/10/17. Edited 24 January , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 24 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2023 thanks Charlie, that's very interesting, i noted he was a interned in Holland............lots more story yet to uncover............ cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 24 January , 2023 Share Posted 24 January , 2023 (edited) Herbert Nelson Hawker. A NewZealander. Here's his RAF Casualty form. https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/28742 And here's a photo of him after a flight 1921. With the Aéroclub photo you should be able to identify him? Born 1897. https://natlib.govt.nz/records/23013749. Another potential photo 1917. https://www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-memorial/online-cenotaph/record/C115829 He has an RFC Airman's record (enlisted 1917), an RAF officers record (commissioned 1918). The latter shows some postwar service and transfer to South African AirForce 1936? Also an RAF cadet file but not digitised. The other two here at Nat Archives. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Herbert+nelson+hawker&_sd=&_ed=&_hb= He has a listing on the rafcommands database but you need to register. Should be WW2 service. http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?19017-Herbert-Nelson-Hawker Have a look at this NZ site for some family info etc. https://soc.genealogy.australia-nz.narkive.com/hTZwsTxs/herbert-nelson-hawker History of Nelson. Edited 24 January , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 24 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2023 Thats great Charlie, again some fantastic info here, really appreciated here is my temporary display awaiting a printed title…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 24 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2023 Here is Smith and Perham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 24 January , 2023 Share Posted 24 January , 2023 (edited) Wilfred Montague Smith. A complicated path to follow. Has an RFC record, an Army Record and a RNR record. 2Lt on probation RFC,SR 22/7/16. Served as an Observer 48Squdn 1917. Resigns commission 29/7/17. Attests 766836 28th London Regt, Artists Rifles, 31/8/17. Private, home service until 11/6/18 when he is discharged having been granted temporary commission as Lieut in the RNVR!! Seems then to be on 'technical duties'. Did he have a nasty experience as an Observer in 1917?? I note you've just posted photo with pilot qualification June 1916. I don't think I've mixed up two WMSs because the trail seems continuous, just lacking in explanation. Edited 24 January , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 24 January , 2023 Share Posted 24 January , 2023 (edited) Wilfred Montague Smith Just to show the trail of change.. RAF Casualty Form From his Army file.(courtesy Findmypast) Edited 24 January , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 24 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2023 Yes it is very confusing, he qualified in June 1916 for his aero club ticket, but maybe he just did not prove himself as a pilot and thus was ‘volunteered’ as an Observer….until like you suggest he had a nasty experience flying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 24 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2023 The other issue is both his medals are marked as Lieut RAF……… maybe there was more than one W.M.Smith……..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 25 January , 2023 Share Posted 25 January , 2023 Smith's RNVR record - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8646723 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 January , 2023 Share Posted 25 January , 2023 21 minutes ago, horatio2 said: Smith's RNVR record - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8646723 Horatio, can you interpret please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 25 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2023 19 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Horatio, can you interpret please 'missing, Death presumed' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 January , 2023 Share Posted 25 January , 2023 49 minutes ago, thedawnpatrol said: 'missing, Death presumed' ? No, the bottom half of page is a different man. Confusing,eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 25 January , 2023 Share Posted 25 January , 2023 Appointed to the Admiralty Compass Department (Gyro Compass Branch per December 1918 Navy List - https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/92337914 ). He was one of ten RNVR Lieutenants in that branch. 7 minutes ago, charlie962 said: the bottom half of page is a different man. Two officers per page in these RNVR records. Smith's record ends with details of his N.o.k. (mother). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 25 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2023 ah.........yes confusing...........i'm still not convinced we have the same 'Wilfred Montague Smith', as i only have the medal pair, named Lieut W.M. Smith RAF, why would his Medals be RAF if he was serving in the Navy by the end of the war ? thank you to every one who has helped so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 January , 2023 Share Posted 25 January , 2023 2 hours ago, thedawnpatrol said: why would his Medals be RAF if he was serving in the Navy by the end of the war ? WilfMontSmith.He had no overseas service other than with RAF so that may have influenced naming. But nothing on his RAF record about medal issue. I note his entry on RNVR roll only has BWM. Courtesy Findmypast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 January , 2023 Share Posted 25 January , 2023 Can you check full naming and service on both medals for WMS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 25 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2023 56 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Can you check full naming and service on both medals for WMS? will do tonight...........but sure they both say the same.........we should check the RAF list for 1918 for W.M.Smith ............i bet there is more than one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 25 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2023 I can confirm that both medals are named to Lieut W M Smith RAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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