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Remembered Today:

Help Please on these 3 Officers


thedawnpatrol
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Flight Sub Lt. Wilfred Perham RNAS

Lt. Herbert Nelson Hawker RFC / RAF

Lt Wilfred Montague Smith  RFC /RAF 

i have found Royal Aero Club photos of all three of them, 

Perham, 1545 8/5/1915

Smith,  3123  23/6/1916

Hawker 5433  24/8/1917

any more information would be great, thank you..............

 

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43 minutes ago, thedawnpatrol said:

Flight Sub Lt. Wilfred Perham RNAS

Wilfrid according to his RNAS and RAF records  -

 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=wilf*&_ep=perham&_cr=adm*|air 76&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv   

and the RN Officers' Medal Roll. (He claimed a 1914-15 Star from the Admiralty, his BW and Victory Medals being issued by the Air Ministry.) 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4599049

Edited by horatio2
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Perham. Unusual name so is it this man? 

1919 bounties. 

chrome_screenshot_1674564435084.png.0c5007d42213c3af9601de0810a3ec44.png

Courtesy Findmypast newspapers  

Note he was interned in Holland 23/10/17.

Edited by charlie962
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thanks Charlie, that's very interesting, i noted he was a interned in Holland............lots more story yet to uncover............

 

cheers

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Herbert Nelson Hawker. 

A NewZealander.

Here's his RAF Casualty form.

https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/28742

And here's a photo of him after a flight 1921. With the Aéroclub photo you should be able to identify him? Born 1897. 

https://natlib.govt.nz/records/23013749. 

Another potential photo 1917.

https://www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-memorial/online-cenotaph/record/C115829

He has an RFC Airman's record (enlisted 1917), an RAF officers record (commissioned 1918). The latter shows some postwar service and transfer to South African AirForce 1936?  

Also an RAF cadet file but not digitised. The other two here at Nat Archives.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Herbert+nelson+hawker&_sd=&_ed=&_hb= 

He has a listing on the rafcommands database but you need to register. Should be WW2 service.

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?19017-Herbert-Nelson-Hawker 

Have a look at this NZ site for some family info etc.

https://soc.genealogy.australia-nz.narkive.com/hTZwsTxs/herbert-nelson-hawker 

History of Nelson.

Screenshot_20230124-221144.png.b2ab9f623d6f859bdcd626df90598e22.png

 

Edited by charlie962
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Thats great Charlie, again some fantastic info here, really appreciated 

here is my temporary display awaiting a printed title….

1A154A01-870C-42A3-A61F-DB85F0BA073F.jpeg

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Wilfred Montague Smith.

A complicated path to follow.

Has an RFC record, an Army Record and a RNR record.

2Lt on probation RFC,SR 22/7/16.

Served as an Observer 48Squdn 1917.

Resigns commission 29/7/17.

Attests 766836 28th London Regt, Artists Rifles, 31/8/17. Private, home service until 11/6/18 when he is discharged having been granted temporary commission as Lieut in the RNVR!! Seems then to be on 'technical duties'.

 

Did he have a nasty experience as an Observer in 1917?? I note you've just posted photo with pilot qualification June 1916. I don't think I've mixed up two WMSs because the trail seems continuous, just lacking in explanation.

Edited by charlie962
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Wilfred Montague Smith

Just to show the trail of change..

RAF Casualty Form

_Forms_CF22599.jpg.842d7bdad52196ce1287498e67563c55.jpg

From his Army file.(courtesy Findmypast)

GBM_WO363-4_007371620_01034.jpg.69b6f7a12252cbd3788a516570a95ca2.jpg

GBM_WO363-4_007371620_01037.jpg.310101ca82ee3c79def58dce9c6f3125.jpg

Edited by charlie962
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Yes it is very confusing, he qualified in June 1916 for his aero club ticket, but maybe he just did not prove himself as a pilot and thus was ‘volunteered’ as an Observer….until like you suggest he had a nasty experience flying ?

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The other issue is both his medals are marked as Lieut RAF………

maybe there was more than one  W.M.Smith……..?

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19 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Horatio, can you interpret please

'missing, Death presumed' ? 

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49 minutes ago, thedawnpatrol said:

'missing, Death presumed' ? 

No, the bottom half of page is a different man. Confusing,eh!

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Appointed to the Admiralty Compass Department (Gyro Compass Branch per December 1918 Navy List  -  https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/92337914 ).

He was one of ten RNVR Lieutenants in that branch.

7 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

the bottom half of page is a different man.

Two officers per page in these RNVR records. Smith's record ends  with details of his N.o.k. (mother).

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ah.........yes confusing...........i'm still not convinced we have the same 'Wilfred Montague Smith', as i only have the medal pair, named 

Lieut W.M. Smith RAF

why would his Medals be RAF if he was serving in the Navy by the end of the war ?

thank you to every one who has helped so far.

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2 hours ago, thedawnpatrol said:

why would his Medals be RAF if he was serving in the Navy by the end of the war ?

WilfMontSmith.He had no overseas service other than with RAF so that may have influenced naming. But nothing on his RAF record about medal issue. 

I note his entry on RNVR roll only has BWM. 

Courtesy Findmypast

GBM_RNO_91_209.jpg.9376d36def0b8663bc29b3d9b22150f7.jpg

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56 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Can you check full naming and service on both medals for WMS?

will do tonight...........but sure they both say the same.........we should check the RAF list for 1918 for  W.M.Smith ............i bet there is more than one ?

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