Able to identify regiment from this photo?

[imrichardcole]

As a nice surprising find off the back of this post - 

I've been able to source a photo.  This photo is either of my Uncle William or my Great Uncle James (who I knew nothing about until the forum post above).  I'm now trying to work out which as it's the only photo we possess of either.  Is there anything about his cap and/or other items in this photo that might shed light?  William was in the 25th London Regiment.

I'm not an expert, but does that picture show a 1914 ribbon/rosette (bottom left)?  If so, it will be James as he was the only one who was awarded one.

Thanks in advance.  I might be clutching at straws.

Richard.

 

Edited 20 January by imrichardcole

[sueburden]

No picture showing on your post

Sue

[imrichardcole]

Couldn't get it to "stick", edited original post now.  Thanks.

[CorporalPunishment]

It's not a medal ribbon, it's an Imperial Service badge.      Pete.

[imrichardcole]

1 minute ago, CorporalPunishment said:

It's not a medal ribbon, it's an Imperial Service badge.      Pete.

William was awarded the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_War_Medal, James wasn't, so it must be him?

[mancpal]

The imperial service badge was awarded to territorial volunteer soldiers prior to the war who volunteered to serve overseas in the event of a conflict arising. Different entirely from the territorial efficiency medal. It’s possible either or both men wore one.

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, imrichardcole said:

As a nice surprising find off the back of this post - 

I've been able to source a photo.  This photo is either of my Uncle William or my Great Uncle James (who I knew nothing about until the forum post above).  I'm now trying to work out which as it's the only photo we possess of either.  Is there anything about his cap and/or other items in this photo that might shed light?  William was in the 25th London Regiment.

I'm not an expert, but does that picture show a 1914 ribbon/rosette (bottom left)?  If so, it will be James as he was the only one who was awarded one.

Thanks in advance.  I might be clutching at straws.

Richard.

 

Yes the soldier shown is almost certainly likely to be 25th London’s, a cyclist unit. A few years before the war the cyclist units were still assigned the largely obsolescent (except for the RFC) Austrian style field service cap (FSC).  Just as it once had been for cavalry, the FSC for cyclists was to be secured in place with a chin strap worn down, which we can see in your photo.  Unlike many of the other London Regiment units, the 25th did not wear black, Rifles style buttons.  By the time the war began the FSC had been discontinued by cyclist units who then wore the drab khaki forage cap just like other infantry.  See: https://www.25thlondon.com

 

Edited 20 January by FROGSMILE

[PhilB]

In your first poster photo, Frog, which looks Boer War-ish, the men are wearing a strange long pair of spats. Is that pure artistic licence?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, PhilB said:

In your first poster photo, Frog, which looks Boer War-ish, the men are wearing a strange long pair of spats. Is that pure artistic licence?

No Phil, they’re not imaginary, but a type of short spat worn with long hose (socks) adopted specially for the cyclists around the turn of the century.  There were also a special type of puttees with a built in spat at the bottom and projecting over the front of the shoes or boots.  Neither seem to have been popular and they appear to have been discontinued within a few years.

Edited 20 January by FROGSMILE

[PhilB]

Thanks, Frog. You must have a very extensive library! I do worry for the patient (and the cyclists) in the last photo - that hardly seems possible.

[FROGSMILE]

21 minutes ago, PhilB said:

Thanks, Frog. You must have a very extensive library! I do worry for the patient (and the cyclists) in the last photo - that hardly seems possible.

More a matter of being singularly focused I think Phil, but I’m pleased to help.  The stretcher conveyance does look rather Heath Robinson I agree!

[PhilB]

Another interesting cycle shot here which might have got into WW1 usage?

“Above an Australian rifle section, armed with what appear to be either MLMs or MLEs, is mounted on a couple of rather unusual bicycles.  Built by the Royal Australian Cycle Corps, the ‘War Cycle’ was a pair of ‘tandem’ bicycles outfitted with rims allowing them to be used on rail tracks.  The bikes were painted a khaki colour and above a pair of two ’War Cycles’ can be seen, with two 'tandems’ and two single bikes bolted to one another at the axles.  It was reported that these prototypes with their 8 man crews could reach speeds of up to 30 miles per hour!”

“Bicycles were used by both the British & Empire forces and the Boers during the Second Boer War, as the motor vehicle was not yet adequately developed for use in the field.  Cyclists were often used as dispatch riders but also because of their stealth, as they were quieter than horses, they made excellent scouts.

The War Cycle was also able to be used as an ambulance of sorts with a stretcher positioned between the two bikes.   The War Cycle was intended for use to patrol the vital rail lines between towns and camps to ensure that raiding Boer Commandos did not sabotage the line.   It was also able to draw a Maxim Gun or supplies on a trailer attached behind it, but how much action the War Cycles saw is unknown.”  

 

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, PhilB said:

Another interesting cycle shot here which might have got into WW1 usage?

“Above an Australian rifle section, armed with what appear to be either MLMs or MLEs, is mounted on a couple of rather unusual bicycles.  Built by the Royal Australian Cycle Corps, the ‘War Cycle’ was a pair of ‘tandem’ bicycles outfitted with rims allowing them to be used on rail tracks.  The bikes were painted a khaki colour and above a pair of two ’War Cycles’ can be seen, with two 'tandems’ and two single bikes bolted to one another at the axles.  It was reported that these prototypes with their 8 man crews could reach speeds of up to 30 miles per hour!”

“Bicycles were used by both the British & Empire forces and the Boers during the Second Boer War, as the motor vehicle was not yet adequately developed for use in the field.  Cyclists were often used as dispatch riders but also because of their stealth, as they were quieter than horses, they made excellent scouts.

The War Cycle was also able to be used as an ambulance of sorts with a stretcher positioned between the two bikes.   The War Cycle was intended for use to patrol the vital rail lines between towns and camps to ensure that raiding Boer Commandos did not sabotage the line.   It was also able to draw a Maxim Gun or supplies on a trailer attached behind it, but how much action the War Cycles saw is unknown.”  

 

Very interesting Phil.  The 2nd Boer War certainly seems to have been the epoch of military cycling, although ironically a second lease of life, at Britain’s great cost and humiliation, came with the Japanese Imperial Army’s rapid advance down the Malay Peninsula in WW2.