Any further info on these war dead on the WW1 LSR memorial?

[Hurlabrick]

Hi.  Doing a voluntary project on Findagrave for London Scottish was dead and I have the following names from the WW1 memorial in the London Scottish drill hall, but for the life of me, I cannot find further details on CWGC.

The people are:

BOUCHIER C W

HAWKINS W (possibly Gordons posted?)

KELLAS JOHN (possibly Gordons posted)

MITCHELL C N 

PIRI FRANCIS D

RANKINE A G (SGT)

SAUNDERS G F

SMITH A M (SGT)

THOMPSON J

TURNER J

WALKER C W

WOOD W

YOUNG J H (2LT)

Any ideas or relevant entries in the LSR gazettes?  I would have a browse myself, but now living in Canada, so a bit trickier!

[charlie962]

Francis Daniel Piri died after discharge. His service file is on Findmypast. A Gibraltarian.

Not found on CWGC 

Edited 7 January , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

32 minutes ago, Hurlabrick said:

BOUCHIER C W

This is Claude Walter Bourchier 5296 who was missing 1/7/16 with A Company, 14th London. 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/search-results/

Edited 7 January , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Hurlabrick said:

MITCHELL C N 

This might be Cecil Noël Mitchell although I see nothing to say he died. He was discharged VDH attributable but I haven't seen a pension card. 

 

Died after discharge 1918.

This from FindmyPast

 

Given discharge vdh attributable and in a debilitated state, vulnerable to any illness, is this a possible noncom?

His service record survives.

Not found on CWGC.

Edited 7 January , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Hurlabrick said:

RANKINE A G (SGT)

Arthur George Rankine, 511833.

Discharged 1917, VDH attributable. Also had gsw, tubercule lung. 

Service record survives. Born 1881

Includes this note from his wife.

Courtesy findmypast. 

Not found on CWGC.

[charlie962]

So apart from possible transcription errors, we seem to have men who died after discharge and the sample above shows they may not be commemorated.  

Charlie

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Hurlabrick said:

SAUNDERS G F

George Frank Saunders. 4457

Another death after discharge.

This from his service file on FindmyPast.

Not found on CWGC

Edited 7 January , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Hurlabrick said:

SMITH A M (SGT)

I think this is Alexander Milton Smith, 510032, an old regular soldier who died after discharge. 

Born 1864.

Service records on FindmyPast include this.

 

Not found on CWGC 

Edited 7 January , 2023 by charlie962

[PRC]

3 hours ago, Hurlabrick said:

YOUNG J H (2LT)

There is a Medal Index Card for Lance-Serjeant 3405 James Hill Young, 14th Londons, who was subsequently commissioned in the Londons as a 2nd Lieutenant - Battalion not stated. He subsequently went on to serve in the Royal Flying Corps. The MiC is noted that he Deceased 17th January 1918.

Front and back images of the Medal Index Card courtesy of Ancestry - any further re-use must comply with the terms and conditions of that site.

The London Gazette has him commissioned 30th October 1914, so not sure why his other rank number is given on the MiC. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28961/page/8887/data.pdf

His Commonwealth War Graves Commission webpage records him as serving with 35 Squadron, with the Royal Flying Corps and London Regiment (London Scottish). He was aged 30 and the additional information is "Son of James Young; husband of Anna Frances Young, of 4, Lansdowne Terrace, Eastbourne. Born at Londonderry."
His body was moved from Seboncourt Communal Cemetery, where he was originally buried by the Germans, and into Premont British Cemetery in 1926. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/555930/james-hill-young/

The International Committee of the Red Cross have 2 record cards for him, which in turn refer to several reports received from the Germans. Looks like he was captured wounded and died in a field hospital.
https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/5830671/3/2/
https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3329270/3/2/

The 35 Squadron website adds:-

• James Hill Young (Wounded)
• Captured: 12/01/1918
• Hospitalised: Feld-Lazarett, Seboncourt
• Died of Wounds: 17/01/1918 (Feld-Lazarett, Seboncourt)
• Buried: Friedhof, Seboncourt Grave 114

https://35squadron.wordpress.com/2019/03/23/prisoners-of-war-wwi/

Hope that helps,
Peter

[Hurlabrick]

Wow!  Thank you so much guys for your prompt and well researched replies!  Certainly helped to fill in a few of the gaps I have!  I have been trying Ancestry for some time, but it looks like Findmypast is much better for British records.....

[PRC]

19 hours ago, Hurlabrick said:

I have been trying Ancestry for some time, but it looks like Findmypast is much better for British records.....

The service records will all be on Ancestry, and on balance for the Great War period there is more on Ancestry. However in an ideal world you’d have both – there are some unique recordsets on FMP, and when it comes to the image quality for items available on both websites, then FMP is usually better. But it’s a question that comes up every now and again as to which one is “better” and overall the answer is neither – each has strengths and weaknesses.

So summarising where we have got to so far to identify the gaps.

BOUCHIER C W  - @charlie962 found a 5296 Claude Walter BOURCHIER, missing 01/07/16.
HAWKINS W (possibly Gordons posted?)
KELLAS JOHN (possibly Gordons posted)
MITCHELL C N  - as per @charlie962 , a 512174 ex 5927 Cecil Noel Mitchell & Labour Corps 282305 who was discharged with VDH and is probably the 22 year old Charles Noel Mitchell, ex London Scottish, who died of double pneumonia on November 26 aged 22 – ADD the General Registrars Office death index for England & Wales has a 22 year old Cecil N. Mitchell who died in the Pancras District of London in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1918..
PIRI FRANCIS D  -  @charlie962 suggested 513619 Francis Daniel Piri, who died after diuscharge 11/11/1920.
RANKINE A G (SGT)  - @charlie962 suggests 511833 Arthur George Rankine, discharged 1917 VDH attributable – letter from wife says died from effects of wounds on the 6^th November 1920.
SAUNDERS G F  -  @charlie962 suggests 4457 George Frank Saunders, discharged 07/04/16, died 01/12/1921 from Tuberculosis & exhaustion.Too late to be considered by CWGC.
SMITH A M (SGT)  -  @charlie962 suggests 510032 Alexander Milton Smith, died post discharge on the 26^th October 1919.
THOMPSON J
TURNER J
WALKER C W
WOOD W
YOUNG J H (2LT)  - I suggested 2^nd Lieutenant James Hill Young, 35 Squadron RFC & London Scottish, brought down and captured 12^th January 1918, died of his wounds on the 17^th January 1918.

KELLAS JOHN (possibly Gordons posted)

There is a MiC for a 528023  John Kellas 14^th Londons who was also 266531 Gordons – but looks from the Roll reference that his medals were issued by the London Regiment.
Possible Pension Ledger Card on Ancestry & Fold 3.
No obvious death in England & Wales in the immediate post-war years.

Image courtesy Ancestry.

THOMPSON J
Possibles :

6256 / 512442 Acting Serjeant James F. Thompson, 14^th London. Nothing on MiC about death or early discharge. (Medal Roll indexed on Ancestry as James Frederick Thompson).
Service Records available – born c1892, connection to Ormesby, Yorkshire.

6783 / 512843 Private James W. Thompson, 14^th London.  Nothing on MiC about death or early discharge.
(Medal Roll indexed on Ancestry as James Wilfred Thompson).
Lives of the First World War has him as James Wilfred THOMSON and amongst the missing of the 1/14^th on July 1^st, 1916. https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/4419162

CWGC:- https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/816061/james-wilfrid-thomson/

TURNER J

Possible

6523/512650  John W. Turner, 14^th Londons.  Nothing on MiC about death or early discharge.
(Medal Roll indexed on Ancestry as John William Turner).
FMP has what is probably a one page for him that they have recorded as a Service Record under the 512650 service number – probably a memo  \ report in which he was also mentioned, or a piece of recycled scrap paper, found in another mans service records.
He is on CWGC under the 6523 service number – 1/14^th, died 1^st July 1916 and remembered on the Thiepval Memorial.  https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/817432/john-william-turner/

WALKER C W

Possible

A Charles Walker who was initially 04202 Army Ordnance Corps before becoming L/23123 & 516349 14^th Londons. Nothing on MiC about death or early discharge. No match on CWGC.

WOOD W

Possible

8513 / 514294 William Wood, 14^th Londons. Nothing on MiC about death or early discharge.
Surviving discharge records – indexed on FindMyPast with year of 1921. Also has him born c1900. However records there are under 8513 – for 514294 they only have one of their “one pagers” as far as I can tell from the index.

Soldiers Died in the Great War has Private 514294 William Wood recorded as Died of Wounds on the 4^th May 1917 while serving in France & Flanders with the 14^th (County of London) Battalion, (London Scottish), London Regiment. He was resident and enlisted Walthamstow.

CWGC  has him as Private 514294 Edgar William Wood, “B” Coy, 1/14^th Bn, London Regiment, (London Scottish). That has him recorded as 22 years old and the additional information is that he was the “Only son of Edgar and Beatrice Wood, of 877, Lea Bridge Rd., Whipps Cross, Walthamstow, Essex. Born at Leytonstone, Essex.”. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/179775/edgar-william-wood/

Hope that helps,
Peter

Edited 18 January , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[charlie962]

Walker CW.

SDGW have this:

First name(s) Charles William

Last name Walker

Rank Private

Service number S/41876

Battalion 1/14th London Regiment.

Regiment Gordon Highlanders

Birth place -

Residence -

Enlistment place Leicester

Death day 4

Death month 3

Death year 1919

Death place Home

Theatre of war Home

Cause of death Died of wounds

Record set Soldiers Died In The Great War 1914-1919 

CWGC have this man at Sheffield: 

First name(s) Charles William

Last name Walker

Birth year 1900

Age 19

Death year 1919

Death date 04 Mar 1919

War First World War, 1914-1918

Number S/41876

Rank Private

Regiment Gordon Highlanders

Grave reference Screen Wall. N1. "C." 21.

Cemetery or memorial Sheffield (Burngreave) Cemetery

Burial country United Kingdom

Additional information Son of Charles and Harriet Walker, of 30, Gower St., Leicester

Edited 18 January , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

This Gordon Highlanders and 1/14th London Regt seems to be the common link for a number of men and possibly the source of confusion?

"1908 14th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (London Scottish)

Boer War South Africa 1900-02

The Great War Three Battalions formed

1914 1st / 14th Battalion 2nd / 14th Battalion 3rd / 14th Battalion

1916 Re-designated as a Territorial Battalion of The Gordon Highlanders without change of title

3rd / 14th Battalion re-designated as 14th (Reserve) Battalion"

Edited 18 January , 2023 by charlie962

[6RRF]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

This Gordon Highlanders and 1/14th London Regt seems to be the common link for a number of men and possibly the source of confusion?

"1908 14th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (London Scottish)

Boer War South Africa 1900-02

The Great War Three Battalions formed

1914 1st / 14th Battalion 2nd / 14th Battalion 3rd / 14th Battalion

1916 Re-designated as a Territorial Battalion of The Gordon Highlanders without change of title

 

To be precise, the affiliation with the Gordons was by a Royal Warrant dated 12 July 1916