Photo of soldier-which regiment please ?

[Lady Linda]

Happy Boxing Day,

I was given this photo for Christmas of a young lad in uniform, can anyone identify the uniform, please ( ignore the blue line, that was a reflection on the glass) There is also some writing in the corner, does that mean anything?

Many thanks Linda

 

[6RRF]

The uniform is pretty standard, he's a first lieutenant and there's an air of being a newly commissioned one, but if you can provide  enlargements of the cap-badge and collar-dogs Identification of the regiment should be straightforward enough

 

Edited 26 December , 2022 by 6RRF

[Michelle Young]

Possibly a harp shaped badge, but the image quality is poor unfortunately. 

[FROGSMILE]

Second lieutenant rather than first lieutenant, the British Army does not use the latter term, which is more associated with the United States.  In Britain it is second lieutenant and then lieutenant, just as within the JNCOs of some corps it was second corporal and corporal.  In essence his rank is that of the most junior officer and in the grouping termed ‘subaltern officers’.

 I agree with Michelle that the image as presented is too poor to discern confidently any regimental insignia.

The writing appears to be a trademark identifying the photographer.  If you could carefully remove the photo from the frame and scan it properly (or obtain a well lit non reflective photo) it might be possible to identify the Regiment.  Most public libraries provide access to a scanner.

Edited 26 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[6RRF]

8 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Second lieutenant rather than first lieutenant, the British Army does not use the latter term, which is more associated with the United States.  In Britain it is second lieutenant and then lieutenant, just as within the JNCOs of some corps it was second corporal and corporal.  In essence his rank is that of the most junior officer and in the grouping termed ‘subaltern officers’.

I know, I know. A fit of inattention and God knows why 

[FROGSMILE]

35 minutes ago, 6RRF said:

I know, I know. A fit of inattention and God knows why 

Easily done my friend and mentioned only to clarify for the OP.

[charlie962]

47 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

The writing appears to be a trademark identifying the photographer

SWAINE (Frank Arthur Swaine) was an upmarket London photographer of the period. 

The buttons should also help id the regiment.

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, charlie962 said:

SWAINE (Frank Arthur Swaine) was an upmarket London photographer of the period. 

The buttons should also help id the regiment.

Yes buttons and collar insignia, but unfortunately as things stand both are too indistinct, or at least on my phone screen they are.

[max7474]

He appears to be wearing his sword frog but no sword.  There was a regiment who did this as the norm where most regiments did not.  Worcestershires?  I can't remember.

[FROGSMILE]

49 minutes ago, max7474 said:

He appears to be wearing his sword frog but no sword.  There was a regiment who did this as the norm where most regiments did not.  Worcestershires?  I can't remember.

Yes Worcestershire’s is absolutely correct, from the old 29th “ever sworded” and commemorating when they were caught unarmed at Mess (meaning dining) by an Indian raid in North America, with many casualties resulting.  However, it wasn’t really until between the wars that it was represented by just the frog, so at that time of WW1 it wouldn’t have been especially unusual for an officer of any regiment to remove just his sword (worn when on parade or duty) but retaining the frog upon entering indoors.

Edited 26 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[6RRF]

All of his kit looks very new and the Sam Brown strap is noticeably loose as if it has been put on for the portrait but hasn't been adjusted for the weight of a sword

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, 6RRF said:

All of his kit looks very new and the Sam Brown strap is noticeably loose as if it has been put on for the portrait but hasn't been adjusted for the weight of a sword

Yes it’s not even anywhere near his correct size and as a result the cross brace has had to be fastened on the very last hole.

Edited 26 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Lady Linda]

Thank you all so very much! I had to go off and have dinner, no not turkey!

But you have given me so many great answers. I have done a close up and ripped open the back which was done by a professional framer, whoops.  I have a scanner but the photo is attached to a thick board which can't be separated without ruining the photo, 

 

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, Lady Linda said:

Thank you all so very much! I had to go off and have dinner, no not turkey!

But you have given me so many great answers. I have done a close up and ripped open the back which was done by a professional framer, whoops.  I have a scanner but the photo is attached to a thick board which can't be separated without ruining the photo, 

 

Well done Lady Linda, that’s a good clue.  The cap badge is unfortunately of a shape that was adopted by quite a number of units, mostly of cavalry.  It was basically a circlet with the regimental title on it, or sometimes the garter honour in old French (HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE), surmounted by a crown.  If you can do the same kind of close up for both collar badges it might be possible to ascertain a firm identity.

My guess at the moment is a local Yeomanry (auxiliary cavalry) regiment. 

Edited 26 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Lady Linda]

34 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Well done Lady Linda, that’s a good clue.  The cap badge is unfortunately of a shape that was adopted by quite a number of units, mostly of cavalry.  It was basically a circlet with the regimental title on it, or sometimes the garter honour in old French (HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE), surmounted by a crown.  If you can do the same kind of close up for both collar badges it might be possible to ascertain a firm identity.

My guess at the moment is a local Yeomanry (auxiliary cavalry) regiment. 

Thank you so much, is this any better?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Lady Linda said:

Thank you so much, is this any better?

Yes, I think it’s possibly Hertfordshire Regiment, Territorial Force.

Here’s the collar badge.

And cap badge below it.

The Regiment was one of just a few created in 1908 that was formed from part-timers only, there were no regulars.

From the LongLongTrail adjunct to this website:

1/1st Battalion

August 1914 : in Hertford. Part of East Midland Brigade in East Anglian Division.
Moved on mobilisation to Bury St Edmunds.
6 November 1914 : left the Division and landed in France. Came under command of 4th (Guards) Brigade in 2nd Division.
19 August 1915 : transferred to 6th Brigade in same Division.
29 February 1916 : transferred to 118th Brigade in 39th Division at Renescure.
8 February 1918 : transferred to 116th Brigade in same Division.
11 May 1918 : transferred to 112th Brigade in 37th Division.
22 May 1918 : absorbed more than 600 men from 6th Bedfordshire Regiment.

After their period of service with the prestigious 4th (Guards) Brigade, the battalion was often known as the Hertfordshire Guards.

2/1st Battalion

Formed at Hertford in September 1914 as a second line battalion.
January 1915 : moved to Newmarket and came under orders of 207th Brigade in 69th Division.
June 1916 : moved to Harrogate, then on to Darlington in October 1916 and Carburton in April 1917.
20 September 1917 : disbanded.

 

Edited 26 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Lady Linda]

39 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes, I think it’s possibly Hertfordshire Regiment, Territorial Force.

Here’s the collar badge.

And cap badge below it.

The Regiment was one of just a few created in 1908 that was formed from part-timers only, there were no regulars.

From the LongLongTrail adjunct to this website:

1/1st Battalion

August 1914 : in Hertford. Part of East Midland Brigade in East Anglian Division.
Moved on mobilisation to Bury St Edmunds.
6 November 1914 : left the Division and landed in France. Came under command of 4th (Guards) Brigade in 2nd Division.
19 August 1915 : transferred to 6th Brigade in same Division.
29 February 1916 : transferred to 118th Brigade in 39th Division at Renescure.
8 February 1918 : transferred to 116th Brigade in same Division.
11 May 1918 : transferred to 112th Brigade in 37th Division.
22 May 1918 : absorbed more than 600 men from 6th Bedfordshire Regiment.

After their period of service with the prestigious 4th (Guards) Brigade, the battalion was often known as the Hertfordshire Guards.

2/1st Battalion

Formed at Hertford in September 1914 as a second line battalion.
January 1915 : moved to Newmarket and came under orders of 207th Brigade in 69th Division.
June 1916 : moved to Harrogate, then on to Darlington in October 1916 and Carburton in April 1917.
20 September 1917 : disbanded.

 

Wow,you are so amazing, thank you so much!

[FROGSMILE]

23 minutes ago, Lady Linda said:

Wow,you are so amazing, thank you so much!

I’m glad to help, I couldn’t have done it without sight of the collar badges.  I wonder who he was and whether he survived.