Piper42nd Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 A nice photo of three sergeants in front of the Sphinx and pyramids. The fellow on the right appears to have a Wolseley helmet. What are the other two wearing? Can anyone make out the badges above the stripes? What badge might the fellow on the right have on his lower sleeve? Are the pocket flaps V shaped or the pockets just full and making appear that way? According to writing on the reverse the two on the left are sergeants. What is the one on the right? Company SM? Finally, they are all in the 115th and 116th what? Thank you, Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrmh Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) Company Serjeant Major would fit and possibly 1/5 and 1/6 City of London Battalions? Edited 23 December , 2022 by Jrmh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Piper42nd said: Finally, they are all in the 115th and 116th what? Co RE. These men are all in Railway Construction Companies RE. 115RCC went to Egypt Dec 1915 and 116 RCC in Feb 1916.(that is per Howard Williamson but Sgt Bass of 116th landed Egypt 30/12/15.) Edited 23 December , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) Here's the MIC for George Randolph Thurstan. Edited 23 December , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) Sgt Bass is George Bass, mic, and an extract of his service record courtesy Findmypast Edited 23 December , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) A candidate for CSM Forbes is Paul Henry Forbes. His officer service file is at NatArchives under WO 339/100503 He was MiD (French's Despatch) early 1916, presumably prior to 116th RCC(if it is indeed him in the photo- needs more work) Charlie Edit this Nov 1916 extract in the Middlesex County Times, via Findmypast newspapers, for Great Western Railway employees would suggest photo must be later ie 1917. (Again assuming it is him). Same GWR man has this detail in their records. Born 29/3/1892. But I still haven't found confirmation of an Egypt connection. However I believe PHF ended up a chief accountant with Malayan Railways in late 20s. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1728/images/32167_636897_0188-00062?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=nnD972&_phstart=successSource&pId=873368 Edited 23 December , 2022 by charlie962 Additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Piper42nd said: A nice photo of three sergeants in front of the Sphinx and pyramids. The fellow on the right appears to have a Wolseley helmet. What are the other two wearing? Can anyone make out the badges above the stripes? What badge might the fellow on the right have on his lower sleeve? Are the pocket flaps V shaped or the pockets just full and making appear that way? According to writing on the reverse the two on the left are sergeants. What is the one on the right? Company SM? Finally, they are all in the 115th and 116th what? Thank you, Harvey They are Corps of Royal Engineers, as mentioned by Charlie. You can ascertain that at a glance for the two sergeants, because they have the corps’ grenade arm badge for SNCOs that was decreed in 1881. It was worn above the rank on both arms. The fellow far right is a warrant officer and if before July 1915, when the rank was of a singular ‘class’, but nevertheless divided by pay and status into two grades, then he’s a unit level appointee. After July 1915 the same badge was adopted universally by the lower level, company sergeant major appointment, and the original warrant officers were elevated to a 1st Class and with new badges of rank and appointment (still with two grades at this upper level of WO). The helmets are all Wolseley type but photographed (and so viewed by us) at different angles and fitted with pagris (aka puggarees - a cloth wrapping) which gives them individually a slightly different appearance. They appear to be wearing khaki drill (KD) jackets, made from a stout cotton twill. Broadly speaking there were three sources for these and so many variants. Version one was of Indian Army manufacture (clothing factories in India), version two was British Imperial issue (made in places other than India, including the Royal Army Clothing Department (RACD) factory at Pimlico in London). Version three was made bespoke or tailored to fit via purchase from native tailors in regimental bazaars (local commercial market stalls) and souks (Arab equivalents). These latter might be to a set pattern and purchased by a unit, or individually ordered with idiosyncrasies stipulated by the purchaser. There’s little doubt that they were probably the most diversely styled uniform worn by British soldiers at that time. They later became popular for the US and with superior sanforized cotton evolved to become known as chinos, or khakis. The triangular pocket flaps suggest British issue if I recall correctly. Edited 23 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 Frogsmile, I'm thinking this photo may be 1917. Anything in the detail to suggest not possible? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 2 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Frogsmile, I'm thinking this photo may be 1917. Anything in the detail to suggest not possible? Charlie Only that the warrant officer is wearing an ordinary P08 web belt Charlie, which would be unusual for a WO1 circa 1917, but not completely impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 CSM Forbes has at least one ribbon. Could that be a 1914 Star and rosette or an mid emblem? I didn't think ribbon came out till late 1917. I'm trying to confirm or eliminate PH Forbes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, charlie962 said: CSM Forbes has at least one ribbon. Could that be a 1914 Star and rosette or an mid emblem? I didn't think ribbon came out till late 1917. I'm trying to confirm or eliminate PH Forbes. It’s too big proportionately to be a rosette I think - more likely a white section on a ribbon. The MID oak leaf was darker. A CSM could certainly be seen in a P08 web belt. Edited 23 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) Re Paul Henry Forbes. The GWRailway records on Ancestry that I linked above have him commissioned March 1917 so unless that is an MiD emblem on a blank bit of ribbon it cannot be him in the photo.?? I note your comments re emblem/ribbon. Edited 23 December , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Re Paul Henry Forbes. The GWRailway records on Ancestry that I linked above have him commissioned March 1917 so unless that is an MiD emblem on a blank bit of ribbon it cannot be him in the photo.?? I note your comments re emblem/ribbon. Might it not be a flash of white from the centre of a King’s South Africa Medal ribbon ? Edited 23 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) Thanks If that is two ribbons, QSA then KSA, which fits the image, we would be looking for someone born c1880 not 1892 like PHF. Time to look for another candidate I think. Charlie Edited 23 December , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, charlie962 said: If that is two ribbons, QSA then KSA, which fits the image, we would be looking for someone born c1880 not 1892 like PHF. Did he serve in SA? If he did then he should be on one, or both of the medal rolls. If his DOB is 1892 then he seems impossible unless a Boy Entrant. Minimum age was 12 in 1899, but most Boys that deployed were at least 14 by all accounts. For thoroughness any other medal eligibility should be checked in case he had some other medal with white in its ribbon. Edited 23 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: Did he serve in SA? If he did then he should be on one, or both of the medal rolls. He's not on either roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 December , 2022 Share Posted 23 December , 2022 2 minutes ago, TullochArd said: He's not on either roll. It looks like he’s ruled out then unless there’s some other medal not yet ascertained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper42nd Posted 23 December , 2022 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2022 Gentlemen, thank you for all the information. It answered all my questions and provided personal information I didn't expect. Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 24 December , 2022 Share Posted 24 December , 2022 For mentions of 115th & 116th Railway Construction Companies in the Egyptian/Palestinian campaigns, see the RE History Vol. VI, from page 178> here https://www.nzsappers.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Corps-History-Vol-06.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper42nd Posted 25 December , 2022 Author Share Posted 25 December , 2022 Interesting reading. I had no idea so many rail lines were constructed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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