Help with uniform identification

[Piper42nd]

I bought this because I recently became interested in blue patrol jackets.  What I'm looking for is his unit and an approximate date of the photo.  He's supposed to be Canadian.  It's odd but he doesn't have a cap badge.  His sword appears to be a Pattern 1895 or 1897.  It has a steel scabbard which might mean it predates the 2nd Boer War.  There's nothing on the rear of the card.  Thanks 

Harvey

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, Piper42nd said:

I bought this because I recently became interested in blue patrol jackets.  What I'm looking for is his unit and an approximate date of the photo.  He's supposed to be Canadian.  It's odd but he doesn't have a cap badge.  His sword appears to be a Pattern 1895 or 1897.  It has a steel scabbard which might mean it predates the 2nd Boer War.  There's nothing on the rear of the card.  Thanks 

Harvey

It’s a typical blue patrol uniform of the earlier pattern with just breast pockets.  In Britain that pattern was pre-1898, but this is later because the style of forage cap became popular after the 2nd Boer War.  I don’t know why he has no cap insignia, but in Britain that was the exclusive practice of the three Household Cavalry regiments until just before the outbreak of WW1.  Perhaps in Canada the Governor Generals Horse Guards followed suit, they did in most things (which would also match with not wearing collar badges).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_General's_Horse_Guards

Metal sword scabbards were normal for all commissioned officers orders of dress, except khaki service dress, until full dress was made no longer mandatory.  The three stars (pips) for captain indicate post 1902 and the cap post 1905, so around 1905-1908 would be my guess.  He’s wearing lace up shoes and has his Sam Browne fitted too loosely so that it has skewed around, both of which oversights chime with a civilian of militia cavalry.

Edited 12 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

A very  good analysis as usual FROGSMILE.  I had noticed the skewed belt and thought perhaps he was showing off his sword.

Do you think the band below the crown of the hat is red?  The pictures in the link you provided all show a red band.

How were captains designated before 1902?

Do you think this close-up shows the bottom edge of a pocket?

Harvey 

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, Piper42nd said:

A very  good analysis as usual FROGSMILE.  I had noticed the skewed belt and thought perhaps he was showing off his sword.

Do you think the band below the crown of the hat is red?  The pictures in the link you provided all show a red band.

How were captains designated before 1902?

Do you think this close-up shows the bottom edge of a pocket?

Harvey 

No I think the band is either plain black, like the Foot Guards style, or perhaps more likely the black oakleaves pattern type used by regiments without any Royal Appellation.  When a Royal red band the contrast is usually quite apparent even with B&W imagery.

Captains had two pips 1880-1902, Lieutenants one and Second Lieutenants none.

There might well be an internal pocket in the skirt, but after 1898 there was a button flapped external patch pocket matching those on the breast but proportionately larger. 

 

Edited 12 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

Thanks again.  All things considered I should have saved my money I think.

[FROGSMILE]

12 minutes ago, Piper42nd said:

Thanks again.  All things considered I should have saved my money I think.

I’m glad to help a little.  I’ve had another look at his cap band and I can’t be sure that it’s black, the lighting is too poor in this case.  I would certainly wager that he’s not a regular though.