Help identifying Northumberland Fusiliers (Tyneside Irish) Ceremonial Dress Uniform

[StaffordE]

Hello,

I was wondering if any experts or collectors of military uniform would be able to shed more light on the ceremonial dress uniform in this photo and its true colour. Below is thought to be 2nd Lieutenant and later Captain William Edmond Stafford of the 27th Northumberland Fusiliers (Tyneside Irish) who served from 1915-approx 1919 in WW1 and was from County Wexford, Ireland and was awarded the M.C. in Jan 1918 according to a newspaper article. The uniform in this photograph appears to be ceremonial dress with a ceremonial sword. I am aware that such dress wasn't used in everyday combat in WW1 but would it have been worn on special occasions such as when being appointed a Captain or achieving the M.C.? William was appointed captain on 3 July 1917/8 I believe and this scanned photograph of which I don't have the original has some writing down the bottom which I think says 1918 on bottom left. Would any experts agree that this is a ceremonial dress of the Tyneside Irish Northumberland fusiliers and if they know what colour the outfit would have been? I am trying to colourize the photo for a family member. I tried to find examples of ceremonial dress for the northumberland fusiliers and many examples were a red tunic. I would really appreciate any advice or knowledge on the outfit, its colour and nature in which it would have been worn.

Many Thanks, Eva Stafford.

Edited 9 December , 2022 by StaffordE

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. To me, the photo predates the Great War by some years. The uniform experts are @FROGSMILE and @CorporalPunishmentso hopefully they will be along soon to help. 

[6RRF]

Yes, it is indeed pre-1914, by a fair bit and certainly not an officer of the Tyneside Irish.  The crown on his collar suggests a major and the cocked hat [with feathers] by his elbow suggests a staff appointment

[FROGSMILE]

8 hours ago, StaffordE said:

Hello,

I was wondering if any experts or collectors of military uniform would be able to shed more light on the ceremonial dress uniform in this photo and its true colour. Below is thought to be 2nd Lieutenant and later Captain William Edmond Stafford of the 27th Northumberland Fusiliers (Tyneside Irish) who served from 1915-approx 1919 in WW1 and was from County Wexford, Ireland and was awarded the M.C. in Jan 1918 according to a newspaper article. The uniform in this photograph appears to be ceremonial dress with a ceremonial sword. I am aware that such dress wasn't used in everyday combat in WW1 but would it have been worn on special occasions such as when being appointed a Captain or achieving the M.C.? William was appointed captain on 3 July 1917/8 I believe and this scanned photograph of which I don't have the original has some writing down the bottom which I think says 1918 on bottom left. Would any experts agree that this is a ceremonial dress of the Tyneside Irish Northumberland fusiliers and if they know what colour the outfit would have been? I am trying to colourize the photo for a family member. I tried to find examples of ceremonial dress for the northumberland fusiliers and many examples were a red tunic. I would really appreciate any advice or knowledge on the outfit, its colour and nature in which it would have been worn.

Many Thanks, Eva Stafford.

His uniform is definitely either, Royal Artillery (RA), or Royal Engineers (RE), whose special features were almost identical apart from the former wearing a dark blue tunic and the latter a scarlet tunic.  Both had a notably broad scarlet stripe down the outer welt of their trousers and as that seen here more closely matches the tunic I think he is RE.

Rank at that time was displayed on the collar and via decorative gold lace knots on the cuffs, in this case the rank is Lieutenant.  Another special feature of the RE is that their ‘facings’ (collar and cuffs) were constructed from blue velvet and the cuff knots in yellow, or gold round cord lace depending upon rank.

The white diagonal band across his chest is a pouch belt which as it’s description implies supported a pouch suspended in the centre of the pack in which originally ammunition was carried, but later things like a sketchbook and pencil for field sketching, note taking and orders writing were kept on the person.

The date is around the late 1850s to mid 1860s.  His headdress is a cocked (bicorne) hat, which is placed next to him on the table. 

 In the photo the undress (white) pouch belt is being worn.  In the colour image a full dress (ceremonial) pouch belt in crimson leather and gilt lace is worn instead.

Perhaps it is the father of who you thought it was.  Bear in mind that it’s not impossible that he might be RA rather than RE if we’ve been misled by the old photography’s representation of colours in black and white photography.

Afternote: the leg of mutton construction of the sleeve and general looseness of the tunic and trousers indicates the earlier half of the period I’ve mentioned, and all is in accordance with the RE’s 1857 Dress Regulations.  It’s a quite early photograph. 

Edited 9 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[6RRF]

I won't argue with Frogsmile but to take the colouring further, for a Royal Engineers officer we'd be talking about a scarlet tunic with a dark blue collar, with gold braid on the collar and cuffs [and a gold crown] while the scarlet stripe would be on dark blue [almost black] trousers.

I'm sure that if you ask nicely Frogsmile will be able to illustrate it in glorious technicolour

[ianjonesncl]

4 hours ago, StaffordE said:

that this is a ceremonial dress of the Tyneside Irish Northumberland fusiliers

The Tyneside Irish were a service battalion and I would be very surprised if a ceremonial uniform was ever required in that capacity.  

[PRC]

5 hours ago, StaffordE said:

Captain William Edmond Stafford of the 27th Northumberland Fusiliers (Tyneside Irish) who served from 1915-approx 1919 in WW1 and was from County Wexford, Ireland and was awarded the M.C. in Jan 1918 according to a newspaper article.

Hi @StaffordE and welcome to the forum

On the 1911 Census of Ireland there is an 18 year old William Edmond Stafford, a Farmer, born County Wexford, who was recorded living at Baldwinstown, County Wexford. This was the household of his parents William Stafford, (aged 65, a Farmer, born County Wexford) and Mary, (aged 55, born County Wexford). The couple have been married 35 years. The oldest child still at home was a John Stafford, aged 33 and born County Wexford, as are the other 6 children in the household. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003604762/

That still means the father could potentially have been serving in the 1860's, a likely date for the picture and to have been in the Army up until he was 30 - the officer in the picture could be late twenties to thirties I would guess and very youthful looking if he was older.

A google search for "William Stafford Baldwinstown" brings up a Lives of the First World War entry for the M.C. winning Northumberland Fusiliers Officer which includes a picture. Possible family resemblance?

Image courtesy Lives of the First World War - all image rights remain with the current owner and restrictions on reuse may apply. https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/4221636

Cheers,
Peter

[PRC]

Take 2 on the possible family resemblance.

No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners.

Cheers,
Peter

[StaffordE]

9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

His uniform is definitely either Royal Artillery (RA) or Royal Engineers (RE), whose special features were almost identical apart from the former wearing a dark blue tunic and the latter a scarlet tunic.  Both had a notably broad scarlet stripe down the outer welt of their trousers and as that seen here more closely matches the tunic I think he is RE.

Rank at that time was displayed on the collar and via decorative gold lace knots on the cuffs, in this case the rank is Lieutenant.  Another special feature of the RE is that their ‘facings’ (collar and cuffs) were constructed from blue velvet.

The white diagonal band across his chest is a pouch belt which as it’s description implies supported a pouch suspended in the centre of the pack in which originally ammunition was carried, but later things like a sketchbook and pencil for field sketching, note taking and orders writing were kept on the person.

The date is around the late 1850s to mid 1860s.  His headdress is a cocked (bicorne) hat, which is placed next to him on the table. 

 In the photo the undress (white) pouch belt is being worn.  In the colour image a full dress (ceremonial) pouch belt in crimson leather and gilt lace is worn instead.

Perhaps it is the father of who you thought it was.  Bear in mind that it’s not impossible that he might be RA rather than RE if we’ve been misled by the old photography’s representation of colours in black and white photography.

Afternote: the leg of mutton construction of the sleeve and general looseness of the tunic and trousers indicates the earlier half of the period I’ve mentioned, and all is in accordance with the RE’s 1857 Dress Regulations.  It’s a quite early photograph. 

Thanks so much for your valuable knowledge. I had thought that possibly the quality of the photography looked much earlier than 1910s period. Looking at the photograph again I definitely agree with your judgement @FROGSMILE along with everybody else that the uniform in the photo doesn't match a Northumberland Fusiliers dress and that the photograph was taken much earlier. The likeness to the photos you provided of the RE uniforms are very similar. @PRCThanks for your research, that is the correct family. William Edmond Stafford who served in the Northumberland fusiliers was born in 1892 and his father also William Edmond Stafford (Senior) was born in 1846. I am unaware of his father having any military service but it is definitely possible. The resemblance between the photo I uploaded and the clip from the newspaper is very similar. The earliest William Edmond Stafford Senior could have served would be around 1864 at the age of 16 I'm assuming so that would be in the timeframe of the hypothesized date of late 1850s-mid1860s. William also had 3 brothers who were all younger than him: Nicholas b.1852, Laurence b.1855 and Edmund b.1859 which I think might be too late.

I do have many photographs of William Edmond Stafford Senior but only when he was much older and in a group setting outside so the photos were not taken in a studio and the quality of the features is not great at all. He also had a long beard and wore a top hat in most photos so its impossible to see if the man in this photo is the same one as in the uniform. I have attached one below as an example of William Edmond Stafford Senior b.1846 which I think was taken circa 1912.

I tried searching for a possible record of a Stafford born in Wexford serving in the British Army in the RE or RA but couldn't find a match around the 1850s/1860s. I have been able to obtain a clearer version of the scanned image which I attached below and inverted because I think if you view the inverted version upside down the letters at the bottom of the page seem in the correct orientation, the date now appears to be 1878 but this is too late. I am trying to track down the original the decipher the writing at the bottom. Thanks so much to everybody for their help, I will update if I find a match but I definitely know now that I'm looking for RE or RA. Also is anybody aware of a good colorizing software I could use to colorize the photograph manually? Many Thanks, Eva Stafford.

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/12/2022 at 01:59, StaffordE said:

Thanks so much for your valuable knowledge. I had thought that possibly the quality of the photography looked much earlier than 1910s period. Looking at the photograph again I definitely agree with your judgement @FROGSMILE along with everybody else that the uniform in the photo doesn't match a Northumberland Fusiliers dress and that the photograph was taken much earlier. The likeness to the photos you provided of the RE uniforms are very similar. @PRCThanks for your research, that is the correct family. William Edmond Stafford who served in the Northumberland fusiliers was born in 1892 and his father also William Edmond Stafford (Senior) was born in 1846. I am unaware of his father having any military service but it is definitely possible. The resemblance between the photo I uploaded and the clip from the newspaper is very similar. The earliest William Edmond Stafford Senior could have served would be around 1864 at the age of 16 I'm assuming so that would be in the timeframe of the hypothesized date of late 1850s-mid1860s. William also had 3 brothers who were all younger than him: Nicholas b.1852, Laurence b.1855 and Edmund b.1859 which I think might be too late.

I do have many photographs of William Edmond Stafford Senior but only when he was much older and in a group setting outside so the photos were not taken in a studio and the quality of the features is not great at all. He also had a long beard and wore a top hat in most photos so its impossible to see if the man in this photo is the same one as in the uniform. I have attached one below as an example of William Edmond Stafford Senior b.1846 which I think was taken circa 1912.

I tried searching for a possible record of a Stafford born in Wexford serving in the British Army in the RE or RA but couldn't find a match around the 1850s/1860s. I have been able to obtain a clearer version of the scanned image which I attached below and inverted because I think if you view the inverted version upside down the letters at the bottom of the page seem in the correct orientation, the date now appears to be 1878 but this is too late. I am trying to track down the original the decipher the writing at the bottom. Thanks so much to everybody for their help, I will update if I find a match but I definitely know now that I'm looking for RE or RA. Also is anybody aware of a good colorizing software I could use to colorize the photograph manually? Many Thanks, Eva Stafford.

Eva I think you should be looking at another generation back, so perhaps a great grandfather of William Edmond Stafford, as it were.  I say this because the uniform is exactly as per the then new 1857 Dress Regulations for RE.  Notice the loose sleeves and puffed out gathering at the shoulder seam (so-called leg of mutton) that was typical of the hand sewn tailoring, plus most importantly the doubled cord shoulder strap.  See: http://www.royalengineers.ca/REdressreg57.html

The uniform subsequently changed to be more closely tailored, as per the images I posted.  The engineers officers also had a distinction on their full dress tunics of elaborate, twisted cord shoulder knots (see below).  I would also suggest the young officer’s age to be in his 20s rather than 16. Also bear in mind that the young man concerned would have had to be educated as a military engineer either, at Woolwich, if a British Army RE, or at Addiscombe, if an Honorable East India Company engineer officer, who uniquely emulated the uniform of their regular army counterparts until disbanded in 1861.  The exact same would apply to an artillery officer.

Does that fit with the social and pecuniary background of the family concerned?  I ask this because the commission as an officer, uniforms and equipment would all have had to be purchased by the family (usually father) under the system then prevailing, which remained in existence until around 1880.  It seems likely to me that the image is a ‘daguerreotype’.  In your original post you had the orientation correct, the sword should be at his left side and diagonal pouch belt oriented accordingly.

 

Edited 11 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Michelle Young]

33 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

  It seems likely to me that the image is a ‘daguerreotype’.

The image is certainly reminiscent of images taken of the British Royal Family in the 1850/1860 period which were daguerreotype. 

[FROGSMILE]

21 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

The image is certainly reminiscent of images taken of the British Royal Family in the 1850/1860 period which were daguerreotype. 

Yes it seems likely.  I’m trying to thrash out whether the doubled cord shoulder strap rather than the engineers knot indicates he is an artillery officer, it’s really difficult to differentiate without colour and so key differences like that can be crucial.  Also the knots weren’t adopted at all until into the 1850s and then worn by artillery officers too.

Edited 10 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

8 hours ago, StaffordE said:

I am unaware of his father having any military service but it is definitely possible. The resemblance between the photo I uploaded and the clip from the newspaper is very similar. The earliest William Edmond Stafford Senior could have served would be around 1864 at the age of 16 I'm assuming so that would be in the timeframe of the hypothesized date of late 1850s-mid1860s.

Not spotting anything so far in the London Gazette for a William Edmond Stafford. but unfortunately the surname brings up a lot or matches for the county \ town \ regiment etc.

Tried a look at the 1867 Harts Annual Army List for him as a Lieutenant in either the Royal Artillery or the Royal Engineers. Both Artillery and Engineers includes separate sections for their Bengal and Madras equivalent. I chose 1867 as aged 20/21 is more likely in keeping with the age William Edmund Stafford Senior might have been serving and is probably towards the bottom end of the age range for the man pictured in the opening post. Unfortunately not finding anyone with the surname Stafford. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/102695993

If as @FROGSMILE suggests you may be looking at a man photographed shortly aftre the pattern of the uniform was introduced then may be worth trying the 1858 or 1859 edition. As we are back another generation it may be worth checking for surnames from the maternal line as well as that may be the source of the features in the Great War era man.

1858 edition: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/102696001
1859 edition: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/102696000

9 hours ago, StaffordE said:

I have been able to obtain a clearer version of the scanned image which I attached below and inverted because I think if you view the inverted version upside down the letters at the bottom of the page seem in the correct orientation, the date now appears to be 1878 but this is too late.

Inverting to me means turning picture into a negative image rather than reversing it, but that may just be a semantic thing. The best I can do with my 12 year old software given away free with the Sunday Times, , would be this :-

Image inverted and then highlights darkened to the max to bring out the wording.

As the image was reversed to me the wording appears to be reversed as well. I tried doing the same thing with the image you originally posted but that appears to be cropped in the wrong place to show the same detail.

A close up of the wording with a little bit of tidying up makes it look like the characters on the left hand end in the reversed picture, (so would have been at the end of the writing in the original) would read "1868".

Of course other interpretations are available and someone more skilled than I in this area, (not difficult!), can probably drag out more details. This is just to get the discussion started.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, PRC said:

Not spotting anything so far in the London Gazette for a William Edmond Stafford. but unfortunately the surname brings up a lot or matches for the county \ town \ regiment etc.

Tried a look at the 1867 Harts Annual Army List for him as a Lieutenant in either the Royal Artillery or the Royal Engineers. Both Artillery and Engineers includes separate sections for their Bengal and Madras equivalent. I chose 1867 as aged 20/21 is more likely in keeping with the age William Edmund Stafford Senior might have been serving and is probably towards the bottom end of the age range for the man pictured in the opening post. Unfortunately not finding anyone with the surname Stafford. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/102695993

If as @FROGSMILE suggests you may be looking at a man photographed shortly aftre the pattern of the uniform was introduced then may be worth trying the 1858 or 1859 edition. As we are back another generation it may be worth checking for surnames from the maternal line as well as that may be the source of the features in the Great War era man.

1858 edition: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/102696001
1859 edition: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/102696000

Inverting to me means turning picture into a negative image rather than reversing it, but that may just be a semantic thing. The best I can do with my 12 year old software given away free with the Sunday Times, , would be this :-

Image inverted and then highlights darkened to the max to bring out the wording.

As the image was reversed to me the wording appears to be reversed as well. I tried doing the same thing with the image you originally posted but that appears to be cropped in the wrong place to show the same detail.

A close up of the wording with a little bit of tidying up makes it look like the characters on the left hand end in the reversed picture, (so would have been at the end of the writing in the original) would read "1868".

Of course other interpretations are available and someone more skilled than I in this area, (not difficult!), can probably drag out more details. This is just to get the discussion started.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter I think that 1868 is a good call and I’ve spent much of today trying to seek out details of dress RE and RE in an effort to ascertain which we have.  I’ll summarise once I’ve drawn everything together, but suffice to say that the RA are still in the frame too.

Edited 10 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[6RRF]

The cocked hat may still throw in a complication

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, 6RRF said:

The cocked hat may still throw in a complication

I thought so too at first, but it’s gradually becoming clearer and I’m positive I’ll have a reasoned answer.

[6RRF]

Looking forward to it. I'm intrigued.

[charlie962]

Effects of light and shade are difficult to interpret, but:

1.The buttons, particularly at the top of his tunic and those on the cuff, look more like ball than simple convex? Normally indicative of RA, particularly RHA..

2.The tunic shade is slightly lighter than the trousers and the collar and cuffs do seem same shade as trousers. That fits better for RE than RA.

3. The cross belt etc. This could be gold or silver lace rather than white. Loss of texture in the old photo and contrast. 

I'm not really helping the discussion with my conflicting points?

It will be interesting to see what the detectives come up with for that writing on the bottom.

[FROGSMILE]

After reviewing a range of written reference information and visual images I can say with some confidence now that subject image shows a lieutenant on the regimental (Brigade**) staff serving with the Royal Regiment of Artillery no later than 1857.  I think that Peter is correct that the Daguerreotype has been inscribed with the year 1868, but that it was perhaps done in error years afterward.

As mentioned the RA and RE dress was very similar apart from the primary colour of their respective tunics.  This was because they both had origins within the old Board of Ordnance, but nevertheless, there were some subtle differences visible even with black and white imagery.

For both RA and RE the coatee with bullion shoulder fringes was replaced by a single breasted tunic in 1855-1856.  For officers of RA the shoulder decoration was a simple double round cord, and for RE a more elaborate plaited knot formed from three strands of cord.  Rank for both was to be distinguished by three ascending levels of cuff lace, one for lieutenants, one for captains and one for field officers.  However, in 1857 a new system of collar rank was ordered in addition and in the same year it was specifically decreed that the tunic sleeves were no longer to be cut very loosely as they had initially been.

Whereas all RE officers wore cocked hats with cascading white feathers in full dress, RA officers were to wear a fur cap (busby) with the exception of staff officers.  Paymasters wore a cocked hat without feathers, and quarter-masters with white feathers similar to RE.  However, the staff officers professionally qualified as surgeons and veterinary surgeons were notably different.  The former wore cocked hats with black, cock feathers, and the latter with red, cock feathers.  Although these officers were integral to the RA they were professionally separate, having been educated and qualified through civilian colleges via institutions in their home countries.  In the case of Ireland there was a much renowned medical establishment in Dublin, but the veterinary training college was in Woolwich as part of the large artillery garrison there.

I enclose a photograph of a RA lieutenant colonel showing the tunic with collar rank and the doubled round cord shoulder epaulette#.  He also wears a white ‘undress’ [working] pouch belt and waistbelt with sword slings.

Returning to our subject image, the cocked hat feathers are clearly not white, but a dark colour.  The question is, is that dark colour black (the same colour as the body of the hat) or red?  My personal vote goes for red, in which case the young man shown is a veterinary surgeon. These officers were considered by many as more important than the human surgeons, as without them the battery’s guns could not move.  However the light can be fickle and so black feathers and thus a medical background is possible.

**in 1855, when the Board of Ordance was disestablished and the RA and RE were taken under command of the Army, the Company and Battalion organisation hitherto used, was replaced by Battery and Brigade, respectively.

#similar doubled round shoulder cords, but in yellow worsted wool, were worn at various times by ranks below commissioned officer of both, RA and RE and in 1880 RA officers adopted a plaited design akin to the RE with rank devices on top.

 

 

 

Edited 12 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

And to emphasise the differential shoulder knot decoration, here is a lieutenant of Royal Engineers, whose image was taken in 1856, the year before the introduction of rank badges on the collar.  Notice the velvet of his tunic’s cuffs and collar, and also his full dress pouch belt (with its wavy line) and waistbelt. 

Edited 10 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

And finally [edit], a captain and lieutenant of Royal Engineers.  Notice the variation to the captain’s cuff decoration and, once again, the special, plaited shoulder knot that distinguishes RE uniform, even in black and white, from that of the Royal Artillery.  The captain’s photo was taken over a decade later, in the 1860s.

Edited 12 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

For @StaffordE: I enclose some images to aid you in the colouration of the daguerreotype if you decide to proceed.  It ought to be possible to trace him as a surgeon of whatever type providing that you can determine his name accurately.

Edited 11 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[StaffordE]

Thanks so much for everyone's help and advice, particularly to @FROGSMILE. The research you did is so helpful, very thorough and conclusive. I spent a while today trying to find family members that might fit the age category. William Edmond Stafford (b.1846) Senior's father was John Stafford born 1798 and I think he is to old to be the man in the photo. He did have younger brothers but they had all passed away before 1840. I looked through the Harts Annual Army List from 1858 and 1859 in the Royal Artillery surgeon and veterinary surgeon sections and couldn't see any names I recognized. William Edmond Stafford Senior did have a sister who married into a family with the surname Crean who were all doctors by profession and graduated from the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin although as yet I haven't been able to find any mention of a member of the Crean family serving in the Royal Artillery as a surgeon. Thanks @PRCfor working on the writing at the bottom. I rotated your version of the flipped image upside down and the writing appears to me to be in the correct orientation. The first three letters read Cre (possibly for Crean) and the next word looks like it starts with a Jo (maybe Joseph). The date as you say may be 1868 or maybe 1846/8 if the top of the 4 isn't visible due to the darkening of the image.

 

I am trying to source the original photograph but would really appreciate anybody's thoughts on the rotated version of the words, however I do think that it is quite unusual to write on the bottom of the photograph upside down especially if its on the front of the photograph and not on the back so I may be incorrect. Other families that were connect to the Staffords were Browne, Sinnott/Sinnot, Devereux, Byrne, Murphy, Hennessey and Keating so I am keeping an eye out for those names too as possible candidates to be the man in the photo. I am going to try colorize the photo over the coming days and will post a image of how it turns out, thanks for the reference photos. I will update on any further info I get. Many Thanks, Eva Stafford

[PRC]

It's sheer guesswork, but what about "To Neave (or Reave), your friend Devereux, 1878"

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

19 hours ago, StaffordE said:

Thanks so much for everyone's help and advice, particularly to @FROGSMILE. The research you did is so helpful, very thorough and conclusive. I spent a while today trying to find family members that might fit the age category. William Edmond Stafford (b.1846) Senior's father was John Stafford born 1798 and I think he is to old to be the man in the photo. He did have younger brothers but they had all passed away before 1840. I looked through the Harts Annual Army List from 1858 and 1859 in the Royal Artillery surgeon and veterinary surgeon sections and couldn't see any names I recognized. William Edmond Stafford Senior did have a sister who married into a family with the surname Crean who were all doctors by profession and graduated from the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin although as yet I haven't been able to find any mention of a member of the Crean family serving in the Royal Artillery as a surgeon. Thanks @PRCfor working on the writing at the bottom. I rotated your version of the flipped image upside down and the writing appears to me to be in the correct orientation. The first three letters read Cre (possibly for Crean) and the next word looks like it starts with a Jo (maybe Joseph). The date as you say may be 1868 or maybe 1846/8 if the top of the 4 isn't visible due to the darkening of the image.

 

I am trying to source the original photograph but would really appreciate anybody's thoughts on the rotated version of the words, however I do think that it is quite unusual to write on the bottom of the photograph upside down especially if its on the front of the photograph and not on the back so I may be incorrect. Other families that were connect to the Staffords were Browne, Sinnott/Sinnot, Devereux, Byrne, Murphy, Hennessey and Keating so I am keeping an eye out for those names too as possible candidates to be the man in the photo. I am going to try colorize the photo over the coming days and will post a image of how it turns out, thanks for the reference photos. I will update on any further info I get. Many Thanks, Eva Stafford

I don’t think it is as likely to be inscribed 1846-48 Eva, unless an error applied years subsequently, purely because the uniform was very different during that earlier period.

 It’s a fascinating image to possess in your family and I do wish you luck with tracking down who it is.  The young man concerned would have been experiencing a quite turbulent period both personally and professionally.

In 1857 (as per the puffed out tunic sleeve) a potentially existential mutiny was going on in India with troops being diverted in transit to other destinations and others sent from the nearest colonial garrisons.

In addition, a disastrous war in the Crimea was not long over, where various logistical crises led to root and branch military reforms.  The Board of Ordnance had just 2-years before been disestablished and all its components transferred to under direct Army command for the first time, thus there were significant organisational changes underway for the RA, the RE and the Ordnance Departments.

The Medical and Veterinary Departments had also performed poorly.  The Surgeons were long established, but had not really devoted much thought to the proper organisation and staffing of hospitals, which they were now having to address, whereas the Veterinarians were a less old profession in scientific terms and as a result of having lost so many animals from neglect and disease, were attempting to establish a comprehensive schooling at a new college within Woolwich.

From a uniform perspective the black feather plume for surgeons had already become quite well known (also emulated by their equivalents in the Honourable East India Company - itself in crisis at the time).  The red plume was equally well known for the Veterinarians and also existed during the Crimean War and earlier conflicts.  The cocked hat had become a feature of staff officers of all types and immediately informed the onlooker of the wearer’s specialist role.  In 1859 both surgeons were ordered to adopt a black leather pouch belt and waist belt to further differentiate them.

In 1914, at the outset of WW1, the Medical and Veterinarian Staff Officers were still wearing cocked hats and feathers when appearing in their full dress uniforms.

Edited 12 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE