Ian Burns Posted 7 December , 2022 Share Posted 7 December , 2022 On the early morning, around 0630, of 1 September 1916 five German aircraft bombed Port Said. This much is known. They were, by default, from FA300 based at Beersheba, but probably flew from El Arish. Again, by default, they were probably Rumpler C.I aircraft. I say 'by default' as FA300 was the only active German unit in Palestine at the time. Any further details - pilots/observers, bomb loads, any damage to the aircraft, anything in fact, would be most welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 10 December , 2022 Share Posted 10 December , 2022 (edited) Mate, I sure there are plenty of Aviation buffs who can give you more. Sept 1916 was when there was a change over of commanders and men within the FA, with Felmy taking over that month and new aircrew and others arriving The FA or Sqn was made up of these aircraft during those early months Pascha 1 - Flieger-Abteilung 300 (2x Rumpler C1 (1028 1048) + 1x Pfalz E1 (448) formed at Dallgow-Döberitz 12-15 arrived Beersheba 4-16 to (6x Rumpler C1 (1028 1048 1837 1838 1842 1843/15) + 2xPfalz E1 (Kathe 448/15) to El Arish 4-16 shown June 1916 (6x Rumpler C1 + Pfalz E1) to (9x Rumpler C1 (1028 1048 1837 1838 1842 1843 1844 1845 1847/15) + 2x Fokker E3 (366/16 & 367/16) at Beersheba 9-16 The advance base at El Arish was open for the around April for the early and later Aug 1916 operations against the Suez, that ended at Romani Aug 1916 and until the capture of El Arish in Dec 1916, was open for operations of a limited type against our forces and the Suez, but with planes that could not carry a heavy load the damage would be limited. This raid (1 Sept 1916) was well know, but I am sorry to say the German records are not that good of who took part to bomb the Suez and the HMS Raven 11 Who took part is unknown or not recorded in German sources I have, while at lest a few names can be said to have been with the FA at that time? Bülow-Böthkamp was flying at that time with Hesler as his obsver Dittmar was shown flying with Schumburg his obsver Euringer with Berthold (obsver) Klein and Heimburg (obsver) Henkel and Stalter (O) Koenig and Georgi (O) Others I am not sure on. like Deutloff Hayne There maybe more but would need more checking, a number of men arrived that month (Sept) so can not be counted Schultheiss Felmy Falke Hohenlohe-Öhringen Jeschonnek to name a few But as all things, this maybe a start for you to check up on, as I am not sure on all these men Cheers S.B Edited 10 December , 2022 by stevenbecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Burns Posted 10 December , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2022 Thanks Mate, Aviation Buffs, nil. Camel Corps, one. Your information is obviously (?) based on access to German sources. All I have had to work with is a few articles from Over The Front and Cross and Cockade International. Whilst I may have been able to make a few guesses as to crews from those published sources your reply has done the ground work for me. Many thanks. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 10 December , 2022 Share Posted 10 December , 2022 (edited) Mate, Yes the sources are "Wings over Sinai and Palestine" by Dieter Groschel and Jurgen Ladek "The history of the Ottoman Air Force" by Serno The Sky above Desert Below" articale I unsure where? It should be remembered that the FA was under attack at its advance base at El Arish by the RFC and RN (seaplanes carriers), a number of aircrew had been killed and wounded on the ground in these attacks, as well as encounters with the RFC The FA 300 was a recce Sqn but due to its operations now became a fighter and bombing Sqn as well, and so the poor old Rumpler was modified to mount a MG in front as well as its rear firing gun. All this meant weight, which is never good for these old string bags and the amount of bombs requried on target S.B Edited 10 December , 2022 by stevenbecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Burns Posted 10 December , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2022 Yeah, the Rumplers originally supplied to FA300 lacked the fixed forward firing gun, it was fitted to later production machines. One of the pilots, Henkel, is supposed to have designed and built an interrupter gear and fitted it to two machines. FA300 had a couple of Pfalz E.II monoplane fighters and I think more likely that he copied and adapted the design - all the same, an impressive achievement in the field. Says much about the quality of mechanics on the squadron. Even overloaded, the Rumplers were more than a match for the Short 184s and Sopwith Schneider/Babys that the East Indies and Egypt Seaplane Squadron had available. Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 10 December , 2022 Share Posted 10 December , 2022 Mate, Yes the Eindecker types used had such a poor maintence record in the desert, that they barely came up to play, mostly only one was used by its pilot (Bülow-Böthkamp) who did well with it, but spent more time on the ground, then the air. How Henkel came to his idea is not confirmed but your right the types was part of the FA when they arrived, so the type could be copied, but all sourse say he made up the idea himself? S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Burns Posted 10 December , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2022 but all sourse say he made up the idea himself? Perhaps, but why reinvent the wheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 11 December , 2022 Share Posted 11 December , 2022 Mate, Then again the main sourse is himself and his book? S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 11 December , 2022 Share Posted 11 December , 2022 (edited) On 07/12/2022 at 22:41, Ian Burns said: On the early morning, around 0630, of 1 September 1916 five German aircraft bombed Port Said. This much is known.They were, by default, from FA300 based at Beersheba, but probably flew from El Arish. Again, by default, they were probably Rumpler C.I aircraft.I say 'by default' as FA300 was the only active German unit in Palestine at the time. Edward J. Erickson's chapter 9 of his 'Palestine – the Ottoman Campaigns of 1914-1918' mentions air activity, but not the 1st September 1916 raid specifically. He gives (p.193) the German 300th 'Pasha I' Air Squadron being in Palestine and half the squadron deployed to Beersheba on 16 May 1916. Two aircraft bombed Port Said harbour on the night 21/22 May 1916. “On 19 July, part of the squadron moved forward to an airfield near El Arish, in order to better support the Ottoman forces operating in the Sinai. The squadron bombed the enemy during the Battle of Romani (4-6 August 1916) and attacked the British headquarters on 6 August. Several missions were also launched against Port Said harbour and adjacent military depots.” Erickson's footnotes suggest that he was working from details in İhsan Göymen, Birinci Dunya Harbi, IXncu Cilt, Türk Hava Harekâti (First World War, Turkish War, Turkish Air Operations) (Ankara: Genelkurmay Basimevi, 1969) Edited 11 December , 2022 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 11 December , 2022 Share Posted 11 December , 2022 (edited) Erickson goes on to mention a report by Cemal Pasha dated 17 September 1916 giving details of the previous three weeks' air operations, but again Erickson does not cite the 1st September raid. The Cemal Pasha report summary also comes from Göymen, Türk Hava Harekâti (p.117) Edited 11 December , 2022 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emrezmen Posted 11 December , 2022 Share Posted 11 December , 2022 (edited) On 08/12/2022 at 01:41, Ian Burns said: Any further details - pilots/observers, bomb loads, any damage to the aircraft, anything in fact, would be most welcome. The following quote is from "Türk Havacılık Tarihi, 1914-1916 (2. Kitap 1. Cilt) [The Turkish Aviation History, 1914-1916 (Book 2, vol. 1)], an official publication by the Turkish Air Force (p. 182 - note the date): "Bombs weighing 92 kilograms were dropped on the railway depots in Port Said by our planes between 6.15-6.30 am on 31 August 1916. It was observed that the bombs hit their targets effectively. Our planes returned safely." The raid gets a small mention in the Turkish official history of air operations as well ("Birinci Dünya Harbi, 9. Cilt: Türk Hava Harekatı," p. 116-117 - the date is 31 August 1916 here too): "On the morning of 31 August 1916, a raid was made on the railway depots in Port Said to hinder the enemy's forward operations by bombing his supply transport. It was observed that the targets were hit. All the planes that took part in the raid returned without any casualties." Edited 11 December , 2022 by emrezmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Burns Posted 11 December , 2022 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2022 Thank you all for your replies. The quotes from "Türk Havacılık Tarihi, 1914-1916" are particularly helpful. The date 31 August has also appeared in other sources, but Raven's logbook (http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-04-HMS_Raven_II.htm) gives the date of 1 September. Also, there are no British records of an attack on 31 August - but I will check on that to be certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 11 December , 2022 Share Posted 11 December , 2022 Mates, The date in question is not or should not be confirmed as British sources all confirm the attack on Suez as 1 Sept 1916 as HMS Anne and Raven were about to sail into the Red Sea for operations.. The bombing of the HMS Raven 11, with three killed and 6 wounded, and a further ten killed and 36 wounded in Port Said, is recorded in German sources (Wings over Sinai) I thought we discussed this some time ago, but I could not find where we did, maybe my mistake. But can be checked by the deaths. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Burns Posted 11 December , 2022 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2022 Regarding possible deaths on Raven. The log book does not mention any deaths : 6.30am: Hostile aircraft dropped bomb exploding on forward well deck wounding Surgeon Probationer C Herington RNVR, George Garge [?], Syrian, M Fernandez, G Frangoulis, D Ghlias, D Eskovo, Moh' Ali & El Said Fahmy firemen 8.00am: Hoisted men in lighter to transfer to British hospital. Yes there have been published, and unpublished diary, accounts mentioning deaths. There may indeed have been some civilian deaths, but there is nothing I have yet located in the official record that mentions deaths aboard Raven. Surgeon Herington was eventually evacuated to the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H Posted 9 March , 2023 Share Posted 9 March , 2023 Here is an extract from the War Diary of the 1st Garrison Battalion of the Sherwood Foresters. I photographed it today at TNA in Kew. WO95/4435. They took over the position of the 6th York and Lancaster Regiment on the 22nd Feb 1916. Dates of several air raids are mentioned along with the positions that the garrison took over in the Port Said area. This record says that the bombing raid was on the 1st September 1916 and aircraft attacked their camp. It's not clear where their camp was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Burns Posted 9 March , 2023 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2023 Thanks William. There were numerous camps situated in and around Port Said, including in the dock area itself... Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 10 March , 2023 Share Posted 10 March , 2023 Mates, Yes I have trying to find what camps were along the Suez for a while , as not only many British camps but also ours (Aussie). There are so many strangely named training or holding or resting camp units here, that knowing when they were formed or changed names has been a chore. But it part of the fun of this game. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 10 March , 2023 Share Posted 10 March , 2023 The 1st Garrison Battalion, Sherwood Foresters' man was George William Simpson. R G Winters RE also died as a result of the air raid. Harold Robinson of the RWK died the same day as Simpson, but it's unclear if this too was the result of the air raid. There is an eyewitness account by Capt. L B Weldon MC in his book 'Hard Lying' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 10 March , 2023 Share Posted 10 March , 2023 It's interesting that not only did the Sherwood's supply a guard for the RFC but also the RNAS . Couldn't the Navy provide its own ? You'd expect the RNs pride would prevent them from accepting Army sentries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Burns Posted 10 March , 2023 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2023 I must admit that the mention of army guards for the RNAS is a little odd. The RNAS base was on an island in the port area, and in all accounts there is no mention of an army guard being required. It is possible that a stores area in the main dock area was being guarded but, once again, I have never found any mention of off-island storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta72s Posted 29 March , 2023 Share Posted 29 March , 2023 Quote On the early morning, around 0630, of 1 September 1916 five German aircraft bombed Port Said. This much is known.They were, by default, from FA300 based at Beersheba, but probably flew from El Arish. Again, by default, they were probably Rumpler C.I aircraft.I say 'by default' as FA300 was the only active German unit in Palestine at the time. Richard Euringer reports in his book "Durch die Wüste" [Through the desert]: "Am 1. September setzte uns Schaumburg zum Bombenflug auf Suez an." "On September 1st, Schaumburg ordered us to bomb Suez." In fact this order could have been made on 31 August in the evening because an earlier raid to Port Said in May 1916 (21/22?) started 11 pm. Euringer mentioned 6 hours flight and and a stopover for refueling was mentioned, if I recall correctly. The afore mentioned mission in May included three machines but v. Bülow had to return in the dark, crashed his machine into a hangar, rolled over three tents and the propeller of the Rumpler injured Dr. Wantrop severly. Sadly, this book and its predecessor "Vortrupp Pascha" [Vanguard Pasha, dealing with FA 300's vanguard in April 1916] were written more novell-like without many dates etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Burns Posted 29 March , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2023 Thank you Jasta72s. Most interesting. First the May raid appears to have been at 2a, 21 May. See Attached (I hope). Richard Euringer. I can find a reference to Vortrupp Pascha but published in 1937 but ,so far, have had no luck with Durch die Wüste. - Could it have been republished as Der Zug durch die Wuste, 1938? If you could copy the page(s) with the passage - Am 1. September setzte uns Schaumburg zum Bombenflug auf Suez an. I would be most grateful. Best regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 29 March , 2023 Share Posted 29 March , 2023 Mates, The May operation is more wildly known Bülow-Böthkamp shown in Rumpler C1 with Hesler (O) on raid on Port Said but crashed on return into a hut at Beersheba 21-5-16 Dittmar shown in Rumpler C1 with Schumburg (O) on raid on Port Said 21-5-16 Henkel shown in Rumpler C1 with Stalter (O) on raid on Port Said 21-5-16 Jasta27 sorry mate but records or Germans sourse show the man injuried to be Kraft Lt Surveyor Airforce att Flieger-Abteilung 300 4-16 1916- shown WIA 18-5-16 or WIA 21-5-16 fractured skull when Bülow-Böthkamp Rumpler C1 crushed into his hut at Beersheba after on raid on Port Said 21-5-16 RTG 5-16 wounded (not identified)? You mentioned "Rumpler injured Dr. Wantrop severly" I have no record of that doctor can you add any more? The known Doctors with FA 300 are hard to pin down Windhoff Dr Cartogragher & surveyor Airforce shown Flieger-Abteilung 300 4-16 - Flieger-Abteilung 300 Feischmann Otto Lt Dr Assistenz Oberarzt - RMO Airforce Flieger-Abteilung 300 5-16 The other two I have are; Georgii Walter Lt deR Dr Metorologist Airforce (shown 1st Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk in Wolf's book) att Flieger-Abteilung 300 (for the Romani operation) 6-16 to 11-16 RTG 1916 Prüfer Max Curt Sidi (Karl) Capt Dr Deutsche Militär-Mission in der Türkei - Vizekonsul politischer Berater und nachrichtendienstlicher Mitarbeiter des AA beim VIII. Armeekorps 1st Canal Expedition 2-15 - Observer (Beobachter) Airforce intelligence officer Flieger-Abteilung 300 5-16 spy in Sina - Flieger-Abteilung 300 - ran Germany's espionage propaganda and sabotage operations in the Ottoman territories of Palestine and aerial intelligence observer with the German air unit Fliegerabteilung 300 RTG 9-16 returned head of Germany's propaganda operation in the Middle East 4-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta72s Posted 30 March , 2023 Share Posted 30 March , 2023 Hi Ian, I was in a hurry, therefore misremembered the name of the book. Sorry. You are correct with "Der Zug durch die Wüste". The aviator and writer (and "book burner" in 1933) Euringer had an annoying habit of keeping some authentical names and changing others. So, I think Schaumburg is Schumburg who could have been in charge when the old commander left on 1 September. I don't know why Euringer changed Lt Kraft into Dr Wantrop, (Thanks for the correction, Steve.) Maybe a poetic license. Strangely, he kept the names of Georgii and Sidi. I'll scan or photograph the page in question later today, Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta72s Posted 30 March , 2023 Share Posted 30 March , 2023 A photo, because it is faster than scanning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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