south staffs 1/6 battalion

[Guest lynsey1]

I am researching my great grandmothers first husband,he was john pitt,born in willenhall and enlisted in willenhall.He was in the south staffs 1/6 battalion and was killed at loos oct 13th 1915,his service number was 1250.Amongst my late nans possesions was also another service number,this was 550,could both of these numbers belonged to john pitt.I believe he was in the territorial army before the war,does this have any significance regarding the numbers.I recently went to willenhall war memorial to see his name and he was listed as j.r pitt,in fact there were two j.r.pitts but on details from "soldiers died "he was only listed as j.pitt.What details would he have given the army when he enlisted and is it posible for me to get a copy of them.Also can you tell me were there many deserters during ww2 and what happened when they were caught.Many thanks for a great site

[AndrewThornton]

Hello Lyndsey

I have done a fair bit of research on the Staffordshire Territorials who took part in the attack on the Hohenzollern Redoubt on 13th October 1915, so if there is anything I can help you with, let me know.

John Pitt's regimental number (1250) indicates that he joined D Company of the 6th South Staffords sometime in 1911, although if you have a reference to 550 as well, this would indicate that he had originally joined the battalion in 1908 on the formation of the Territorial Force. It is quite possible that he left the Territorials in 1909 and re-enlisted later, being given a new number as a result.

The conditions of service for the new Territorial Force, set out in the Territorial and Reserve Forces Act, contained a number of changes from those of the Volunteer Force and Yeomanry. New recruits for the Territorial Force would enlist for a period of four years but were allowed to terminate their engagement on giving three months notice and on payment of £5, unless they chose to enlist into the Regular Army when this requirement was waived. Serving members of the Volunteer Force were allowed to transfer to the Territorials on a short one-year engagement but if they chose to continue their service would have to re-enlist for four years.

I will have a look in my files to see if I can come up with any other information.

[Guest lynsey1]

Hello Andrew,many thanks for the prompt response, i found the info very interesting but if my facts are correct,john pitt was born in 1896 which would mean he would have been been too young based on the facts you gave me,he would have been aged 19 in 1915.Anymore info greatly appreciated and thanks for your time.I had a look at your postcards on another site,very interesting,are these the only ones you have?

I have been doing quite a bit of reading about the great war and the one thing that strikes me regarding the hohenzollern redoubt is what a waste of thousands of lives and for little gain.I suppose that because this is where my great nans first husband died i have a particular interest in this battle and site but feel that because so many were killed in such a short time,what are we able to learn about an individual.If you know that your grandad or uncle was awarded a medal for bravery etc,at least you have something to research but it seems worse when the person you are looking for was one of many thousands killed in one battle,it almost makes them seem invisible and the loss of life even more pointless,hope i,m not making a total mess of what i,m trying to say.

[AndrewThornton]

Hello Linda

John Pitt's regimental number does indicate that he joined sometime in 1911, as this is confirmed from information that I have on several soldiers from the 6th South Staffords who have numbers close to his, either higher or lower, who joined that year. Although this may have made him only 15 at the time of enlistment, it is quite possible that he joined as a Drummer, as these were permitted on the strength of T.F. units. Unfortunately, unless this can be confirmed by any surviving records held at the PRO, we shall never know. Recruits for the Territorials were generally quite young anyway. For example, the average age of the 156 recruits who joined the 3rd Volunteer Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment in 1907 was recorded as being 24. Of the 42 recruits who had joined “E” Company of the 6th Battalion, The North Staffordshire Regiment during 1913 and 1914, 24 soldiers were still under nineteen by August 1914 and were therefore unable to meet the minimum age requirement for active service. This situation mirrored the national trend prevalent within the Territorial Force, which by 1913 contained around 40,000 members under the age of nineteen. There are plenty of cases of lads of 18,17 and 16 serving with the Staffordshire Territorials on the Western Front in 1915, some of whom were killed at the Hohenzollern Redoubt and before.

If you want some more detailed information on the Staffords at the Hohenzollern Redoubt, I do have a series of chapters on the action on Tom Morgan's Hellfire Corner website, but here are two accounts of the action by men from 1/6th South Staffords that may be of interest to you:

Private Ronald Lerry, ‘A’ Company:

“With eager eyes we watched a line of men move forward on the left, then more lines of men come on, and the time for us to start quickly came. Another battalion was leading, and we immediately followed from the support trench. We had a considerable distance to go, and the country was very open. As soon as we got up we found ourselves under a heavy fire of shrapnel, machine gun, and rifle bullets. The ground all round was being ploughed up. Soon comrades began to fall. Whilst we went along we saw some here and there who had already been knocked out, dead and dying. That was the sickening part of it. Although one only had a hurried glance at such sights during that battle-rush, they impressed themselves on one more than all the murderous fire we were facing. At the time one hardly noticed that, and we were all quite cool in the face of it. I noticed our officer, Mr. Yeatman, very coolly light a cigarette as we lay down during the advance. It did not take long to reach our own front trench, which we cleared at a jump and went forward at a steady double.

We were getting nearer and nearer, bullets were hailing more thickly, and I was just wondering inwardly if I should dodge through when, suddenly, in the calf of my right leg I felt, as it were, the concentrated kick of ten thousand horses. I had merely been hit by a bullet, but it sufficed to throw me down, and I am painfully conscious of the fact. I crawled into a shell hole, affording scant shelter, and I barely reached it when a comrade fell across me, apparently dying. Unfortunately, I was too stunned to do anything for him. Eventually I crawled to an old sap, where luckily I found one of our lance-corporals (Latty Wedge), and he put a field dressing on my wound, though he was himself wounded in the hand. From the sap I managed with difficulty to get to a communication trench, which I worked down on my hands and knees till I reached our own trench.”

Lance-Corporal Walter Shotton, ‘A’ Company - later killed in action 1st July 1916:

“As soon as the battalion started to get out of the trenches the machine guns played on them. We in the rear scrambled out of our trenches, and five yards away lay down until we were all ready. We had our coats rolled on our backs, but most of us threw them away, so that we could run faster. We made our first rush of twenty yards or more, and as we did so the machine gun bullets struck many of us. Then we had another rush to the second line of trenches. The machine guns were effective again. Lieutenant Finnis, who was leading, was shot through the leg, but he shouted “Never mind me, Go on, boys! Go on!” And we went. A shell burst in front of me, a piece of shrapnel struck my nose, another piece knocked my rifle out of my hand, the concussion of the air blew me six feet high, and when I dropped I twisted my knee. But I stumbled along and, as I jumped down into the trench a bullet went through my hat.

When we got to our first line of trenches we were considerably reduced in numbers, both in officers and men, and we found that the South had not been able to advance owing to the machine gun fire along their parapet as soon as they tried to get out. When we reached them we all had another go, but the one or two who managed it were killed before they got very far.”

Extract from the report by Major (Acting Lieutenant-Colonel) F. W. B. Law, 1/6th Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment, to Major-General E. Montague Stuart-Wortley, G.O.C. 46th Division:

“At twelve noon on October 13th my Battalion was distributed in Assembly Trenches, and all R.E. tools and material had been served out to the 3rd line.

When our bombardment began, the enemy commenced to crump the Assembly Trenches, doing little harm.

At 1.30 p.m. I heard the enemy machine guns ranging on these same trenches for five minutes. This I reported to Brigade Hqrs., saying that I believed the fire came from the direction of the ‘Dump”. At 1.45 p.m. they started again. I reported this, saying that more machine guns seemed to be firing, and that their fire came from the South Face trench, and rear of it.

The 3rd line moved up, in accordance with orders, and suffered heavy casualties before reaching the front trenches held by 1/5th South Staffords.

No information was received by me that the 1/5th South Staffords had not left their trenches, and, the smoke obscuring the trench, the 4th line moved up to the old British front-line trench.

I observed signalling from the ‘Dump” for more bombs and S.A.A.; also later for reinforcements. At the time I took the signal to be from our advanced bombing line but I could not convince myself that they should have arrived there.

After that, all men that could be collected were pushed up into the fire trenches, which at that time were very thin in places. About a dozen men were kept back for passing bombs up the communication trenches, which had become badly blocked with wounded.

The remaining signallers were sent to work the telephone of the 5th South and 6th North stations, and

all remained in this position until we were ordered to withdraw from the line.”

[Guest lynsey1]

Hello andrew,once again, thanks for the help,i would like to see the chapters you have re:south staffs,found the ones you sent very interesting.

With regard to the dates and service numbers,what you say about him possibly being a drummer makes sense but the other number,550,thats a mystery because you said he may have re enlisted, hence the 1250 number but surely this cant be the case,he certainly would have been too young in 1908 would,nt he?Sorry if some of these questions sound stupid but as a beginner in this research stuff, i have got a lot to learn.Is the public records office the only place where i may be able to verify what you have suggested although i understand that many records were destroyed in ww2 and may not be there at all or may be in the burnt records.Also i have heard about war diaries,does the south staffs reg have these and are you able to view them,if so what kind of things do they record.

Thanks, lynsey

[AndrewThornton]

I have double-checked his later regimental number (1250) and this does indeed indicate that his enlistment was indeed quite early, not 1911 as I thought but a year earlier, 1910. I have checked with reports I have on soldiers who were killed at the Hohenzollern Redoubt and information on 1462 Lance-Sergeant Samuel Caddick indicates that he joined in mid-1910, and another soldier, 1609 Acting Sergeant Fred Watson joined the following year, 1911. Numbers were issued in sequence as men joined the battalion, so I can only go on what the regimental number indicates rather than what your information tells you. Similarly, with the earlier number that you mentioned, if it is correct this number would indicate that he was an early enlistment on the formation of the 6th South Staffords in 1908.

I have had a look to see if I have anything on John Pitt, such as an obituary from the Express and Star or another local paper, but sadly there does not appear to be anything published.

Apart from the chance of his service records having survived and held at the PRO, there is very little else to go on. Unlike the 1/5th Battalion, which has a surviving nominal roll and a very detailed War Diary, the 1/6th Battalion War Diary does not sadly go into much detail and rarely mentions individual other ranks by name. There are copies of the War Diary at the PRO and the Staffordshire Regiment Museum. Similarly, the battalion history, which I have a copy of at home, does not mention other ranks very much is does give a lot of information on the activities of the battalion.

[Guest lynsey1]

hello andrew,thanks for the info you have been able to give me,i appreciate it.

regards, lynsey