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Remembered Today:

Yser River Bridge Numbers near Diksmuide


Bob Drummond

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Hello, my wife's grandfather served in the 11th Battalion Belgian Army engineers (5th Army Division).  Per the attached letter from the Belgian officer under whom he served, he was promoted to Corporal in October 1917 for his dedication while building (foot)bridges across the Yser River south of Dixmude/Diksmuide, near the place called "La Joconde".  The letter specifies that one of these bridges was bridge number 10 ("pont no. 10") and the other was a footbridge 30 meters downstream of bridge number 2 ("pont no. 2").  The work was performed from 9 - 14 August 1917.

The attached Belgian map shows where Le Boyau de la Joconde ends at her house at the river bank and the attached German map from 1 April 1918 shows several footbridges in that area.  However, I don't know which might have been the two built by my wife's grandfather. Is there a source indicating the Belgian Army's numbering for the Yser River bridges in this area during this time period?

Thank you.

Francois Lecour - letter from Capitaine Van Loo 17-12-1939.pdf

   
FL_21_03.jpg.29ceb2baaba17a19d931bd44c2e7b556.jpg

1292239832_Screenshot-DiksmuideMap1Apr1918.png.25af9b4b44513b3807ecb19fe127194c.png

 

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Hi Bob,

That's a nice story and while I don't have the bridge numbers, here are the bridges themselves around Boyau de la Joconde in 1915.  I'm guessing that the single line is a footbridge and the double line for vehicular traffic.  I've seen bridge numbers for other parts of the Yser canal, so hopefully you will find them.

image.png.bab81399cff57bb01588e9756b66f71a.png

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Thank you very much, indeed. 

I have obtained a copy of a 1928 book by Major Louis Tasnier, "Notes d'Un Combattant de la Campagne 1914-1918".  Major Tasnier was an infantry officer in the same Belgian Army Division as my wife's grandfather, although the latter joined the division on 26 September 1915 after completing basic and engineer training. 

In his chapter titled, "La Joconde", Major Tasnier describes encountering the lady at her house the night of 21 December 1914 as he and other Belgian infantry elements were tasked to cross the Yser to the wooded area on the "presqu'île", which might have been the "almost island" in the middle of the map with the three footbridges connecting to it.  The excellent map that you kindly attached correlates well to Tasnier's story, as he mentions the eventual construction of the Albert redoubt and also an Elizabeth redoubt to the south of the house.   

Again, many thanks!

Bob

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  • 5 months later...
On 21/11/2022 at 02:52, Bob Drummond said:

Thank you very much, indeed. 

I have obtained a copy of a 1928 book by Major Louis Tasnier, "Notes d'Un Combattant de la Campagne 1914-1918".  Major Tasnier was an infantry officer in the same Belgian Army Division as my wife's grandfather, although the latter joined the division on 26 September 1915 after completing basic and engineer training. 

In his chapter titled, "La Joconde", Major Tasnier describes encountering the lady at her house the night of 21 December 1914 as he and other Belgian infantry elements were tasked to cross the Yser to the wooded area on the "presqu'île", which might have been the "almost island" in the middle of the map with the three footbridges connecting to it.  The excellent map that you kindly attached correlates well to Tasnier's story, as he mentions the eventual construction of the Albert redoubt and also an Elizabeth redoubt to the south of the house.   

Again, many thanks!

Bob

IMG_2139.JPG

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Hello Bob

Wonderful material you have gathered .

I am looking for photos and maps of the Pervyse area  - of the  inundations , River Yser at that point , the bridges and the roads there . 

My grandfather Frederick Bambridge was a pilot  in RNAS 2 Squadron and his plane was hit by a shell at 15,000 ft whilst on an operation close to Ostende on 22.3.1918. Witnesses described the plane diving then fluttering like a leaf then diving again  with Freddy and gunlayer Harry Lovelock crawling about on the wings trying to balance the plane. Tragically Harry lost his grip on the plane at about 1, 000 feet and was killed. Frederick by some extraordinary feat of athleticism and good fortune hung on and was seen to throw himself clear of the plane at the last minute and landed on the ground . Then the fuselage broke up and rolled over on top of him.

Frederick landed "near Pervyse, this side of the lines ".

Frederick was taken to the  ahead of its' time Belgian Red Cross hospital at La Panne, "Ocean Ambulance ". Thank goodness as he had multiple fractures to both legs and is described as seriously injured.

I would like to see maps and photos and try to understand how Frederick was transported to La Panne given the  River Yser just to the east of Pervyse then the inundations with La Panne being about 20 plus  kilometres North East from Pervyse. 

I know coz I drove there myself last year!

Can you suggest where to look perhaps in Belgian publications/ websites that you know of? Or maybe you have something in your book?

Thank you if you can help

I'll look at Trenchmapper website- I  love the map above as well.

Fiona 

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On 21/11/2022 at 02:52, Bob Drummond said:

Thank you very much, indeed. 

I have obtained a copy of a 1928 book by Major Louis Tasnier, "Notes d'Un Combattant de la Campagne 1914-1918".  Major Tasnier was an infantry officer in the same Belgian Army Division as my wife's grandfather, although the latter joined the division on 26 September 1915 after completing basic and engineer training. 

In his chapter titled, "La Joconde", Major Tasnier describes encountering the lady at her house the night of 21 December 1914 as he and other Belgian infantry elements were tasked to cross the Yser to the wooded area on the "presqu'île", which might have been the "almost island" in the middle of the map with the three footbridges connecting to it.  The excellent map that you kindly attached correlates well to Tasnier's story, as he mentions the eventual construction of the Albert redoubt and also an Elizabeth redoubt to the south of the house.   

Again, many thanks!

Bob

IMG_2139.JPG

IMG_2143.JPG

IMG_2144.JPG

Another thought!

Did the 11th Belgian Brigade cover up to Nieuport?  Is the incident with my grandfather perhaps in the book you have ?

Or was it the 13e Linieregiment? I read on IWM website about a Belgian soldier  in that brigade who served in Dixmunde and up to Nieuport .

I need a Belgian book ! My French is very very rusty but not too bad and a friend is fluent so...

 

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48 minutes ago, RussT said:

Here's one map with numbered bridges with a key - but not sure it's in the exact area of your interest.

Regards

Russ

 

66th Division RE HQ 2.jpg

Thank you very much! That is a marvellous map!

I wonder if its Nieuport Bains. On the coast.  "Beach Avenue " and large-ish train station . Several bridges suggesting it's a significant location.

My location is Pervyse. Its half way between Nieuport Bains and Dixmunde . River Yser ( and railway line) run North to South and Pervyse  is very close to and just sits to the west of the railway line 

I am most curious regards where this map comes from ! Any more?

Fiona 

Edited by FionaBam
God knows where an emoji came from!
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4 hours ago, FionaBam said:

I wonder if its Nieuport Bains.

Hi Fiona, exactly right - the map Russ supplied covers Sheet 12.M.14 to 12.M.21 and the canal and all the named trenches lie within the squares 14 - 21.  The abbreviation R.E.O.O. suggests it was part of a Royal Engineers Operation Order and the C.R.E. 66th Div suggests it was sourced from a unit war diary and authorised by the 66th Division's Commander Royal Engineers.

TrenchMapper has a number of detailed maps of Pervyse, such as this German map from 29-3-1918.  Quickest way of finding it is to put in pervy into the Quick Search and choose Pervijze Station or Sint-Niklaaskerk.  The 3 German maps are 29/3/1918 & show inundation/  Some of the British ones show locks and bridges.

image.png.a22ad338d6641545e2b9dbd2c982ac6c.png

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59 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Hi Fiona, exactly right - the map Russ supplied covers Sheet 12.M.14 to 12.M.21 and the canal and all the named trenches lie within the squares 14 - 21.  The abbreviation R.E.O.O. suggests it was part of a Royal Engineers Operation Order and the C.R.E. 66th Div suggests it was sourced from a unit war diary and authorised by the 66th Division's Commander Royal Engineers.

TrenchMapper has a number of detailed maps of Pervyse, such as this German map from 29-3-1918.  Quickest way of finding it is to put in pervy into the Quick Search and choose Pervijze Station or Sint-Niklaaskerk.  The 3 German maps are 29/3/1918 & show inundation/  Some of the British ones show locks and bridges.

image.png.a22ad338d6641545e2b9dbd2c982ac6c.png

Ooh! Lovely!  Thank you very much White Star . I ll do exactly that in a while! So all those  maps I want on Trenchmapper...I'll find the route they used to transport my grandfather to La Panne hospital. And the date of this map is perfect .

And R.E.O.O- great !

Fiona 

 

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7 hours ago, RussT said:

Here's one map with numbered bridges with a key - but not sure it's in the exact area of your interest.

Regards

Russ

 

66th Division RE HQ 2.jpg

Russ

I did see that map in the 1917 WD of 66 Div CRE when the original post was made but I thought it was too far north of his area of interest. I assumed that it was the M 14 and M 21 between Nieuport Bains on the coast and Nieuport. See attached TNA WO 95/2645 917 WD of 42 Div HQ GS.

I will see if I can find a map on NLS to assist Fiona.

Brian

2645.jpg

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1 hour ago, brianmorris547 said:

Russ

I did see that map in the 1917 WD of 66 Div CRE when the original post was made but I thought it was too far north of his area of interest. I assumed that it was the M 14 and M 21 between Nieuport Bains on the coast and Nieuport. See attached TNA WO 95/2645 917 WD of 42 Div HQ GS.

I will see if I can find a map on NLS to assist Fiona.

Brian

2645.jpg

That's a great map anyway!

Thank you much appreciated 

Fiona 

 

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2 hours ago, FionaBam said:

That's a great map anyway!

Thank you much appreciated 

Fiona 

 

Dear Brian , Russ and all

O my goodness. I have made a huge mistake. In my mind I drove north from Pervsye last year to Ramscapelle and then using my mobile phone Google maps went north east to La Panne.

But not so!!

Double checking on Google maps just now - La Panne is firmly and clearly north west of Pervyse..so I must have done a left at some point. It's a bit of a blur as it was stressful navigating and driving and watching the time as well so as not to miss my return ferry from Dunkirk.

Excuses excuses...

Fact is- in 1914 to 1918 there were no inundations WEST of Pervyse and no waters to traverse to reach La Panne and the Ocean Hospital from Pervyse

My apologies to all. It's still wonderful to have those maps as the inundations and that area remain majorly interesting to me

Hope the ambulance driver in March 1918  rushing my grandfather to hospital had a better sense of direction than I have. #ex-RYADaySkipperhereshameonme.

@brianmorris547

@WhiteStarLine

@RussT

Edited by FionaBam
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On 21/11/2022 at 02:52, Bob Drummond said:

Thank you very much, indeed. 

I have obtained a copy of a 1928 book by Major Louis Tasnier, "Notes d'Un Combattant de la Campagne 1914-1918".  Major Tasnier was an infantry officer in the same Belgian Army Division as my wife's grandfather, although the latter joined the division on 26 September 1915 after completing basic and engineer training. 

In his chapter titled, "La Joconde", Major Tasnier describes encountering the lady at her house the night of 21 December 1914 as he and other Belgian infantry elements were tasked to cross the Yser to the wooded area on the "presqu'île", which might have been the "almost island" in the middle of the map with the three footbridges connecting to it.  The excellent map that you kindly attached correlates well to Tasnier's story, as he mentions the eventual construction of the Albert redoubt and also an Elizabeth redoubt to the south of the house.   

Again, many thanks!

Bob

IMG_2139.JPG

IMG_2143.JPG

IMG_2144.JPG

Bob- my apologies and please ignore me.

I got it wrong- La Panne is North West of Pervyse so no inundations to traverse at all.

Just checked Google maps and whilst I drove north from Ramscapelle I must have turned left at some point for the main road and on to La Panne 

Thanks

Fiona (red faced emoji)

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Fiona,

Here's a general map of the various medical units in the Nieuwpoort Sector during mid to late 1917 when the British were manning the region.

You can perhaps visualise how a route might be managed between Pervyse and La Panne.

Regards

Russ

 

Medical Units - Nieuport Sector.JPG

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15 minutes ago, RussT said:

Fiona,

Here's a general map of the various medical units in the Nieuwpoort Sector during mid to late 1917 when the British were manning the region.

You can perhaps visualise how a route might be managed between Pervyse and La Panne.

Regards

Russ

 

Medical Units - Nieuport Sector.JPG

Russ

Thank you! This is absolutely fabulous! 

Yes I can!- it's one road west from Pervyse up a bit north directly to La Panne. 

I drove into Pervyse from Dunkirk arriving from the west. Beautiful sunny day last May with little white puffy clouds  lined up in the sky. Straight country road tree lined open fields all around. Nowhere to stop for a photo but .....So glad I was there 

And now I know Freddy was most likely there -  this is a gem

Thanks again 

Fiona 

 

 

Edited by FionaBam
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5 hours ago, RussT said:

Fiona,

Here's a general map of the various medical units in the Nieuwpoort Sector during mid to late 1917 when the British were manning the region.

You can perhaps visualise how a route might be managed between Pervyse and La Panne.

Regards

Russ

 

Medical Units - Nieuport Sector.JPG

Whilst being delighted to have this map , I have double checked in my copy of " Elsie & Mairi Go to War " by Diane Atkinson and am puzzled as to why the Nursing Station these two British women set up in the cellar of a bombed out  in Pervyse is not shown on this map. It was a well-known station.

Established in late 1914 the women were based in Pervyse for the next three and a half years,  visiting England for short periods of time for fund raising activities and once in March 1918 for treatment following a German gas attack . They were supported by donations also from the Belgian Red Cross , visited by King Albert of Belgium in November 1914,  and by numerous high ranking British Officers over the following years till in April 1918 the Belgian Army closed the Nursing Post after the second German gas attack there within a month.

An oversight perhaps?

My grandfather is connected to this nursing  station as he may well have known Elise at Marlborough College in Wiltshire between 1910 - 1914.  Elise and Mairi were in hospital in England the day of Freddy 's crash landing in Pervyse in March 1918 so he would not have seen Elise at the nursing station had he been taken there prior to going to La Panne Hospital.  But it is an interesting connection.

16824690662877429205016148796890.jpg

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7 hours ago, FionaBam said:

am puzzled

Join the club :D

The Map was designed only to show the British Army medical facilities administered by XV Corps/Fourth Army units of the Royal Army Medical Corps, not every conceivable medical establishment run by other organisations, which I am sure there were plenty, voluntary or otherwise. Officially, the Belgium Red Cross Hospital at La Panne would therefore not ordinarily appear on this Map but there was an arrangement in place, as described in the history below, and so this has been added to Map to illustrate the complete picture in this part of the medical evacuation chain under the control of XV Corps/4th Army.

Regards

Russ

 

La Panne.jpg

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58 minutes ago, RussT said:

Join the club :D

The Map was designed only to show the British Army medical facilities administered by XV Corps/Fourth Army units of the Royal Army Medical Corps, not every conceivable medical establishment run by other organisations, which I am sure there were plenty, voluntary or otherwise. Officially, the Belgium Red Cross Hospital at La Panne would therefore not ordinarily appear on this Map but there was an arrangement in place, as described in the history below, and so this has been added to Map to illustrate the complete picture in this part of the medical evacuation chain under the control of XV Corps/4th Army.

Regards

Russ

 

La Panne.jpg

Ha ha!

Thank you! That's most interesting . Great to see this extract. Had not thought about any payment being due to  La Panne hospital for Freddys treatment there . "By arrangement "....a quick phone call I trust sufficed.

I thought this might be why the "Angel's of Pervyse" were not listed and whilst it  makes sense to know what is under British control,  I hope all commanders in the British ( French and Belgian) Army/RNAS units knew unofficially of the other medical support facilities in the area as well.

What a lot of information was needed to operate / be in action there . I am astonished at how much the Forces  were writing and reading daily . And I used to feel overloaded working in Social Services ......

Thanks for all your help

Cheers

Fiona 

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The first  map is from the October 1917 WD of 42 Div ADMS (TNA WO 95/2648) and the second, which just about shows La Panne, is from the September 1917 WD of 32 Div ADMS (TNA WO 95/2378). 

Brian

2648.jpg

2378.jpg

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9 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

The first  map is from the October 1917 WD of 42 Div ADMS (TNA WO 95/2648) and the second, which just about shows La Panne, is from the September 1917 WD of 32 Div ADMS (TNA WO 95/2378). 

Brian

2648.jpg

2378.jpg

Thank you very much Brian! These are lovely.

What extraordinary detail in the first map. Perfect for the troops and Commanders .

And great to see all the different  regiments named in the second map.

Ocean Ambulance Hospital was situated at the far east end of La Panne seafront road so possibly just included here too .

Here is my photo taken last May 2022 . This lampost opposite the location of the Ocean Hospital ( long since demolished and marked also by a large plaque on the side of the block of flats ) is at the eastern end of the sea front and the seafront road in parallel then turns away from the seafront inland .

My money is on the hospital being included but not marked on this map. Positive thinking gone astray possibly. 

Thanks again for your help

Cheers

Fiona 

 

 

received_2268598276649075.jpeg

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On 24/04/2023 at 23:28, FionaBam said:

... Frederick was taken to the  ahead of its' time Belgian Red Cross hospital at La Panne, "Ocean Ambulance ".  ...

Fiona, is it possible that the information you have actually refers to "Océan II", which was the name for the Belgian Field Hospital at Vinkem? That would be a sensible journey from near Pervijze.

And while I am on the subject, you may find my book "From the Channel to the Ypres Salient: the Belgian Sector 1914-1918" (Barnsley: Battleground Europe, 2021) to be of some help.

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1 hour ago, Chris_Baker said:

Fiona, is it possible that the information you have actually refers to "Océan II", which was the name for the Belgian Field Hospital at Vinkem? That would be a sensible journey from near Pervijze.

And while I am on the subject, you may find my book "From the Channel to the Ypres Salient: the Belgian Sector 1914-1918" (Barnsley: Battleground Europe, 2021) to be of some help.

Hi Chris

Thank you and done! Funnily enough only yesterday I saw your book when I Googled books about the Belgian Army and clicked on it to buy it but it said Sold Out. Happily today WOB have some copies . Great!

La Panne- well it's on my grandfather 's ADM and to hand I have a coaster - pic below, last line bottom paragraph. 

Will check where else it states La Panne on Freddy's documents Ithat I have seen  at NA Kew. mistakes did occur in paperwork. 

Vinkem- closer but I wonder if compound fractures to Freddy's legs were suspected having removed him from underneath one half of the DH 4 plane's  fuselage and with XRay equipment available at La Panne hospital the decision was made to go the longer journey. 

I hope the road wasnt too bumpy .

Fiona 

16825840901947987611072915594556.jpg

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1 minute ago, Chris_Baker said:

La Panne seems legit, then! Bit of a journey, that.

Yes let's hope they had some rum in the van to assist Freddy .I dont think he was a man given to complaining .

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