"2nd Battalion Leinster Regiment "26- 27 March 1918"

[2li]

hello

Can anyone with a interest or knowledge with the goings on on the 26-27 March 1918 and the "2nd Battalion Leinster Regiment 

I am trying to find anything that will help me understand the leading up to the death of Alfred Clift Private, (15323), 2nd Battalion Leinster Regiment

any help or links to this action much appriciated

kind regards

Philip

[Michelle Young]

War diary here, free after registration, also free.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353590

[2li]

Thanks Mitchelle

I have just downloaded the two war diaries but nothing on these dates found am i missing something?

thanks Philip

[Michelle Young]

Without looking, maybe misfiled, might be worth going to Division/brigade  level to see? 
 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14054502

[2li]

Michelle

A big thank you for your help and advise

kind regards PHILIP

[Michelle Young]

Mea Culpa, I’ve sold you a mickey on Brigade, bear with me. I know they ended up in 29 Div but at the time of the March Offensive they were in the 16th Division. The OH says they were around Epehy on 21/3/18. Should be the correct brigade diary in the link. 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14053715

[2li]

ok no problem

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, 2li said:

hello

Can anyone with a interest or knowledge with the goings on on the 26-27 March 1918 and the "2nd Battalion Leinster Regiment 

I am trying to find anything that will help me understand the leading up to the death of Alfred Clift Private, (15323), 2nd Battalion Leinster Regiment

any help or links to this action much appriciated

kind regards

Philip

As part of the 47th Brigade, of 16th Irish Division, which had been completely decimated during the opening days of Operation Michael 21/23 March, the 2nd Leinster’s (who had joined from 73rd Brigade, 24th Division in February 1918) had only just been moved from VII Corps to XIX Corps of 5th Army** on 25 March 1918. The battalion remained with that formation and, whilst positioned in fluid and hasty defence lines, fought at the Battle of Rosières (26/27 March 1918), where many more casualties were suffered.

The battalion had not long absorbed the surviving rump of 7th Battalion Leinster’s plus a 250 strong reinforcement from a ‘training cadre’ remnant of 6th Connaught Rangers, in order to bring them up to a fighting strength, so many of the men had little time to feel part of their new battalion.  Movement was constant as part of a fighting withdrawal to try and establish a new line along the River Somme.

”At Rosiéres, the III Corps of the German Eighteenth Army sent wave after wave of field-gray troops against the battered XIX Corps. Machine-gun fire bloodied the German assault troops, as did artillery support. Foch ordered that Rosières be held at all costs, but this was proving difficult, as the British Fifth Army’s left flank along the Somme was open. In mid-afternoon, the Germans pushed south to a point a few miles north of the village of Harbonnières. Their goal was to roll up the British line. To halt the advance of the German 208th Division, British Brig. Gen. E.P. Riddell mounted an artillery horse and led the remnants of his 149th Brigade of the British XIX Corps in a determined counterattack that bought adjacent British units badly needed time to consolidate their positions.”

“The British XIX Corps’ section of the line held, but the Rosières position had become a salient, and the troops defending the salient were in danger of being cut off by the Germans. Foch gave permission for the XIX Corps to withdraw, which they did, barely escaping. [It was during this withdrawal in contact with the enemy that the 2nd Leinster’s suffered most of their casualties].  At the close of 27th March the Fifth Army line was now even closer to Amiens.”

To get an idea of casualties see: https://astreetnearyou.org/date/1918/03/27

**after 4-days intense and continuous combat, against the brunt of the German assault, 5th Army’s effective strength was in reality just a weakened XIX Corps.

Edited 17 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[2li]

A big thank you for the interesting read on the events of the 25-26-27 March I now have a good idear on the last hours of Alfreds life with the Leinsters

kind regards Philip

[FROGSMILE]

48 minutes ago, 2li said:

A big thank you for the interesting read on the events of the 25-26-27 March I now have a good idear on the last hours of Alfreds life with the Leinsters

kind regards Philip

I’m glad to help Philip, but I cannot really convey sufficiently just how much 16th (Irish) Division suffered at that time, during which the survivors of the intense opening bombardments conducted a 5-day fighting withdrawal as part of the remaining rump of 5th Army.  Once the line had eventually fully stabilised the Division was evacuated back to the U.K. to be wholly reconstituted.  Due to problems with recruiting, when 16th Division did eventually return to France, it contained just a single Irish battalion, from the Royal Irish Fusiliers.

Edited 18 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Boydo]

Is there any possible source to find the names of the men who had served with the 6th Connaught Rangers who where transferred to the 2nd Leinsters ?

[Anthony466]

On 28/11/2022 at 23:15, Boydo said:

Is there any possible source to find the names of the men who had served with the 6th Connaught Rangers who where transferred to the 2nd Leinsters ?

I think my great uncle John Flynn was a Connaught Ranger 1269 in 1895, then became Leinster Rifles 5426 then Connaught Rangers 294 for WW1. Not sure this helps but ...

[Jervis]

On 28/11/2022 at 22:15, Boydo said:

Is there any possible source to find the names of the men who had served with the 6th Connaught Rangers who where transferred to the 2nd Leinsters ?

Hi Boydo. 
I am assuming you are referring to the circa 300 who joined the 2nd Leinsters on the disbandment of the 6th CR. If so I am not aware of any such list (from the Leinster sources) and unfortunately I don’t think you will find one. 

If you were inclined you could probably make an attempt at gathering the names from various sources - e.g. the medal rolls, 1921 census & the disbandment roll of the Leinster a regiment in 1922. A lot of work and likely to be incomplete. 

Jervis

[FROGSMILE]

I agree with Jervis that it’s unlikely to find a list of names.  These transfers were notified via orders attached to or included with a nominal roll of the men concerned. Nominal rolls were an everyday part of military life and largely of temporary importance and destroyed once the order, or move concerned, had been carried out.  Men were ordered from A to B and once they arrived they were part of B and life moved on.

Simultaneously the nominal rolls were submitted via ‘Part Two Orders’ to the base (third line headquarters) specifically for the purposes of pay and service records, and then sent on to the Infantry Manning and Records Offices at home in Britain where they were recorded at the relevant regiment’s office within the regional ‘Commands’ (military administrative areas that divided up the U.K.).

Again, once ‘taken on strength’ within that regiment’s records office, where duplicates of individual service records were kept and updated, the nominal roll itself was no longer required.  It is for that reason that such rolls have rarely survived other than the rare occasion where one has been retained within someone’s personal belongings. 

Edited 2 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE