Jump to content

Remembered Today:

9th Sherwood Foresters


Martyn James
 Share

Recommended Posts

I am trying to find out when my distant cousin Allen Smith joined this battalion.  His service number was 70992 and he was KiA on 24th November 1916.  He had previous swerved in the Leicestershire Regiment, service number 27085.   His service records did not survive, so any information on when he joined up with the Leicestershire Regiment would also be appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Martyn,

PtecScotney of the Leicesters, no  24132 was transferred to 9th Sherwoods at Base Depot in France 6/10/16  (edited) and acquired new number 70995. 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Charlie. Thanks for that!  Do you know which battalion of the Leicester's Pte Scotney was transferred from?

 

Martyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wright, Leicesters 24096

Trfd to 9th Sherwoods 6/10/16 renumbered 70998

Both Scotney and Wright were 12th Leicesters

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both Scotney and Wright went to BEF base depot about the same date 14/9/16. 

Given Smith only has a 3pound war grat he too had less than a year's service when he died so probably has same sort of pattern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bailey, Leicesters 27086, has an attestation date to 12th bn Leicesters 4/4/16. 

So Smith 27085 attested at about same date.

Edited by charlie962
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So 

Attest 12th Leicesters 4/4/16.

LongLongTrail says: 12th (Reserve) Battalion

Formed at Leicester in March 1916 as a reserve battalion. Moved to Newcastle area in July 1916.

1 September 1916 : converted into 83rd Training Reserve Battalion of 19th Reserve Brigade. 

Possible trf to 3rd Bn just before posting to BEF.

12th  Infantry Base Depot, France, c13/9/16.

Transferred to 9th Sherwoods 6/10/16.

Killed in action 24/11/16.

All very short.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all that -Yes, he didn't have long did he.  Presumably all the soldiers you have detailed were drafted to the 9th at the same time seeing the service numbers are so close.

At least I will have some details to pass onto my Aunt who is 86 who only had a vague memory from childhood of a missing cousin who was mentioned at times who had been lost on the War.

 

Martyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Martyn James said:

Thanks for all that -Yes, he didn't have long did he.  Presumably all the soldiers you have detailed were drafted to the 9th at the same time seeing the service numbers are so close.

At least I will have some details to pass onto my Aunt who is 86 who only had a vague memory from childhood of a missing cousin who was mentioned at times who had been lost on the War.

 

Martyn

You can show her his badges.

8F578F7C-1544-4841-B87D-0E7DD5F69F5F.jpeg

 

D7F9E267-4753-43F5-8982-DDD93982B54A.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some war diary links for you.

At Nat Archives, free to download if you register.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017458

Or starting here on Ancestry (need a sub). 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60779/images/43112_1813_0-00147?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=ef783d90369fce3ae33a2a8f6b3e8288&pId=516451

Note that on 8/10/16 some 364 Other Rank reinforcements arrived including 80 ex Leicestershire's. He will have been amongst them. 

The next 6 weeks spent training and rebuilding the Battalion. Finally into the Trenches 21/11/16.

A large working party on the 24th Nov, digging out a new trench in front of the 1st Line were caught in a German bombardment, north of Beaumont Hamel station, and one officer and 8 ORs were killed. I suggest Allen Smith was one of these. 

So perhaps just 3 days service in the trenches before he died?

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks again for this.....3 days!   I actually also accessed the War Diary via Ancestry 5 mins ago and seen that entry.  I was in the area of Beaumont Hamel  on my last visit to France on 2017, but was unaware of this guys existence then as hadn't started my family research.  Now will add his name to the list I need to visit on my next trip, that makes 5 relatives, only 2 with known graves.  Just shows the effect on one family doesn't it.  Anyway, thanks again for your research and help.

 

Martyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is part of the Order for that fateful working party ( courtesy Ancestry and National Archives) 

chrome_screenshot_1668700765681.png.d7895dd75be5982bbf5ce2d3c82282d3.png

Can one of our clever mappers like @WhiteStarLine make sense?

Edited by charlie962
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Martyn James said:

Thanks again for this.....3 days!   I actually also accessed the War Diary via Ancestry 5 mins ago and seen that entry.  I was in the area of Beaumont Hamel  on my last visit to France on 2017, but was unaware of this guys existence then as hadn't started my family research.  Now will add his name to the list I need to visit on my next trip, that makes 5 relatives, only 2 with known graves.  Just shows the effect on one family doesn't it.  Anyway, thanks again for your research and help.

 

Martyn

He drew a short straw in being selected for that work party.  Wrong time and wrong place.  It exemplifies the arbitrary nature of whether a man survives or not in war of that scale and duration, but generally the longer they’re in the frontline, the shorter ‘luck’ becomes.

Edited by FROGSMILE
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, he really was unlucky wasn't he..... At least he has a marked grave although I see the family didn't add anything to the gravestone.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Martyn James said:

Yes, he really was unlucky wasn't he..... At least he has a marked grave although I see the family didn't add anything to the gravestone.... 

Perhaps they were too grief stricken, or not particularly religious.  For some families such inscriptions must have seemed a moot point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or simply cound not afford it.... From what my Auntie remembers the family were not very clear what had happened to him... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Here is part of the Order for that fateful working party ( courtesy Ancestry and National Archives) 

Here is a 27 November 1916 trench map (click to enlarge).  It shows the Bois d'Hollande (wood) on the right and the three yellow pins are, from left-to-right, the post, the forked road and the new trench.  Underneath is an aerial photo giving some idea of what it looked like at the time.  Enlarging the aerial to its maximum (bottom image) appears to show the line they were digging - the middle pin is very close to the forked road mentioned.

image.png.8e89879a6b713a19f24397ac9c39f541.png

image.png.3f76be4124118921a36551cd68697e6a.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Underneath is an aerial photo giving some idea of what it looked like at the tim

Thank you for that excellent reply. Those aerial photos show just how bleak and battered that area was. It takes a while to understand what we are looking at....

I'll look again later.

Charlie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. So the Station is in fact well south east of Beaumont Hamel, which makes Beaucourt north of the station, thus fitting the description.

It was a large working party, 100 men from each company if I've read diary correctly, so surprising there weren't more casualties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The wonders of the Internet.   I now have a area I can really zone into on my next visit.  My only regret is my Uncle - A. Smith's first cousin and a 2nd World War Vet died last year and I won't be able to share all this with him.

 

Anyway, thank you all again folks.

 

Martyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...