1911 census for overseas military

[Slkmum]

Everyone on this forum is so knowledgeable...so I wish to pick your brains.

Thank you.

My grandfather was in Bermuda at the 1911 census with the 2nd ban of Beds and Herts. is there anywhere I can access the census returns for the regiment?

Thanks again

Julie

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, Slkmum said:

Everyone on this forum is so knowledgeable...so I wish to pick your brains.

Thank you.

My grandfather was in Bermuda at the 1911 census with the 2nd ban of Beds and Herts. is there anywhere I can access the census returns for the regiment?

Thanks again

Julie

Forum member @aodhdubhwill be best placed to give you advice Julie.  I’m sure he’ll be along soon.

[Slkmum]

Thank you!

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, Slkmum said:

Thank you!

I’m glad to help.  He is an expert on Bermuda and the units that served there.  If you click on his profile and read his past posts you will see a lot of other information concerning Bermuda and the garrison there if you’re interested.

Edited 14 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[RussT]

Link here:

Ancestry.co.uk - 1911 England Census

Regards

Russ

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Slkmum said:

My grandfather was in Bermuda at the 1911 census with the 2nd ban of Beds and Herts. is there anywhere I can access the census returns for the regiment?

Hi - if you mean the 1911 Census of England & Wales, which included overseas garrisons, then that is available to view on Ancestry, FindMyPast, Genes Reunited and I believe The Genealogist. There are transcripts available on a number of websites, including the free to use familysearch website.

If you don't have a subscription and live in the UK then you usually find your local library service has a subscription to the library edition of Ancestry or FindMyPast - sometimes both. You do need to be onsite using one of their PC's but other than local limits on the amount of time you can be logged in , usage is effectively unlimited. So probably worth checking out the website of your local library service to see whats available

Cheers,
Peter

[steve fuller]

Who was he? I'll see if I have anything on him on the census or elsewhere?

(Oh and if this is for family tree records, they were the Bedfordshire Regiment at the time of the census and until July 1919, after which they became the Bedfs & Hertfs)

Edited 15 November , 2022 by steve fuller

[steve fuller]

I see your previous posts - Albert Skinner was in F Company, 21 years old, born Waltham Cross.

[steve fuller]

Here he is in the Biggleswade Chronicle 8/1/1915 from a 2nd Bedfordshires casualty list from the First Battle of Ypres which left them with around 250 men from their original strength of over 1,100. 

[steve fuller]

Here he is on another large list, right hand column, same newspaper, dated 1/10/1915 (The Battle of Festubert would be the favourite for this wound):

[steve fuller]

I have not collected any newspapers from the Waltham Cross area so there may well be more - if his NOK lived somewhere in Bedfordshire at the time of the war though, please let me know and I'll have a look through my collection!

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

Here he is on another large list, right hand column, same newspaper, dated 1/10/1915 (The Battle of Festubert would be the favourite for this wound):

What do you mean by “the favourite for this wound”, Steve?

Edited 15 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[steve fuller]

15 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

What do you mean by “the favourite for this wound”, Steve?

Given the battalion's activities in April/May and the others on that casualty list which I know were from the Battle of Festubert, I'd think the favourite 'event' for Albert to have been wounded would be that battle. Possibly from shelling while holding the lines either side of the battle of course but statistically Festubert looks the most likely.

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

Given the battalion's activities in April/May and the others on that casualty list which I know were from the Battle of Festubert, I'd think the favourite 'event' for Albert to have been wounded would be that battle. Possibly from shelling while holding the lines either side of the battle of course but statistically Festubert looks the most likely.

I understand now thanks.  The most likely occasion and location for his wounding.

[Slkmum]

Thank you. Your research is amazing. I am immensely grateful

[steve fuller]

Pleasure Slkmum.

Did anyone locate him on the 1921 census (I don't have access to that one), to see where he lived?

[aodhdubh]

On 14/11/2022 at 20:24, FROGSMILE said:

Forum member @aodhdubhwill be best placed to give you advice Julie.  I’m sure he’ll be along soon.

 

On 14/11/2022 at 20:27, FROGSMILE said:

I’m glad to help.  He is an expert on Bermuda and the units that served there.  If you click on his profile and read his past posts you will see a lot of other information concerning Bermuda and the garrison there if you’re interested.

Thank you very much for the commendation.

I have not been able to find anything on Albert George Skinner in Bermuda, other than his appearance on the 1911 census, implying he was neither an avid athlete not criminally inclined, as other ranks serving in Bermuda were most likely to contribute to posterity by one or both of those methods. He also does not appear in any church register, but I expect you had no reason to think he married, or had a child born, in Bermuda.

 

I can certainly provide contextual information about the battalion's time in Bermuda.

 

It arrived on Tuesday, the 18th of January, 1910, aboard the trooper "Braemar Castle" from Gibraltar, replacing the 2nd Battalion of the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry. The ship anchored at the Royal Naval anchorage at Grassy Bay, in the mouth of the Great Sound and to the east of the Royal Naval Dockyard on the island of Ireland. (https://www.google.com/maps/place/32°19'16.9"N+64°49'16.7"W/@32.3213675,-64.8234881,592m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d32.321363!4d-64.821294)

 

The battalion disembarked on the 19th and was ferried to the City (then town) of Hamilton in Pembroke Parish by the former gunboat (which had been converted to a tank vessel) HMS Ready (after the First World War, the navy disposed of her and she was converted to a lighter, from which William Beebe's Bathysphere was lowered...what remains of her can be seen in the shallows off Meyer's Wharf in St. George's Harbour https://www.google.com/maps/place/32°22'50.1"N+64°40'14.5"W/@32.3803002,-64.6702553,215m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d32.380569!4d-64.670699 ). The battalion marched from Front Street, led by the band of the 2nd Battalion, DCLI, to the barracks at Prospect Camp, a large camp that occupied much of Devonshire Parish and sprawled across the parish boundary into Pembroke, with a western boundary along King Street, below Fort Hamilton ( https://www.google.com/maps/place/Prospect+Camp/@32.302547,-64.7665067,967m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x8a2d1533fd723e47:0x375d7c610bb0d56c!8m2!3d32.302004!4d-64.7668587!16s%2Fm%2F0jzz98q ). There were two other forts within Prospect Camp, Fort Prospect and Fort Langton, armed with coastal artillery and with their particular importance being to (with infantry) created an impassable barrier to any enemy force that succeeded in landing on the South Shore, preventing enemy field guns being moved onto the peninsula of Pembroke, to Spanish Point (largelly occupied by the Royal Navy, including Admiralty House) from where they could fire upon the fleet anchored at Grassy Bay, or upon the dockyard. Prospect Camp was the Headquarters location for the Bermuda Garrison, and also controlled the central military district within the garrison. There were two other large camps...St. George's Garrison at the East End ( https://www.google.com/maps/place/32°22'59.9"N+64°40'20.1"W/@32.3833155,-64.6744531,591m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d32.383311!4d-64.672259 ), beside the town of the same name, which was the oldest, and Clarence Barracks on Boaz and Watford Islands ( https://www.google.com/maps/place/Prospect+Camp/@32.302547,-64.7665067,967m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x8a2d1533fd723e47:0x375d7c610bb0d56c!8m2!3d32.302004!4d-64.7668587!16s%2Fm%2F0jzz98q ). Bermuda was an Imperial fortress, and administered as a base rather than as a colony (there were three others: Halifax, Nova Scotia...until handed over to the Canadian militia, militarily (circa 1870), other than a small garrison to defend the Halifax naval yard - which was closed in 1905 and transferred to the new Royal Canadian Navy, Gibraltar, and Malta. Among other things, this meant a rather large garrison at Bermuda for a 21 square mile archipelago, with the capacity to absorb more soldiers. The garrison had been cut back in post-Second Boer War defence cutbacks. There had normally been two regular infantry battalions there before that war, with three during the war, but reduced to one about 1903. The Royal Garrison Artillery and Royal Engineers establishment were also reduced. This meant a lot of vacant barrack space.

 

As you can see from the census, the battalion was not stationed all together, distributing companies at St. George's, beside the main coastal artillery defences, and at Clarence Barracks (Boaz and Watford Islands are south of Ireland Island, and an enemy attempting to approach the dockyard overland would have needed to fight through them and other military defence works at the West End.

 

There was sufficient barrack space in each of these three camps to accommodate the entire battalion, so the spreading about of its companies was to ensure various key points were defended.

 

Sub-units of the battalion would have been posted at various times to other locations, including Warwick Camp, and would occasionally have been moved about. It cannot be assumed that the locations where the various companies were noted on the 1911 census is where they would always have been. Curiously, F Company's location is not noted.

 

The 2nd Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment left Bermuda on the 17th of January, 1912, as near as I can tell aboard the trooper "Soudan", for South Africa. The Soudan also disembarked the 2nd Battalion of the Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment at Bermuda to replace the Bedfords.

 

Edited 17 November , 2022 by aodhdubh

[steve fuller]

Expert is right, very nicely done 

[aodhdubh]

On 17/11/2022 at 11:20, steve fuller said:

Expert is right, very nicely done 

Tapadh leat

[aodhdubh]

On 17/11/2022 at 01:58, aodhdubh said:

The 2nd Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment left Bermuda on the 17th of January, 1912, as near as I can tell aboard the trooper "Soudan", for South Africa. The Soudan also disembarked the 2nd Battalion of the Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment at Bermuda to replace the Bedfords.

 

By an odd synchronicity, I recently came by this post card of the troopship "Soudan" (a hospital ship during the First World War: https://www.roll-of-honour.com/Ships/HMHSSoudan.html). The card was posted from Bermuda to Gibraltar on the 30th of September, 1907, by someone who had arrived at Bermuda from Gibraltar on the 13th of September...one assumes aboard the ''Soudan'', which as it happens did arrive in Bermuda on that date with the 2nd Battalion of the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry and personnel from various other corps.

 

I'm still working on the identity of the sender, who might have been a man or a woman (or an officer or lady). No rank is given and the name only in initials, which appear to be FAR. No officers with those initials in the 2nd Bn. DCLI at the time. Could be a WO, NCO or private soldier...or might have been RGA, ASC, or some other corps....or a wife. It is actually signed "F.a.R." or "F. a. R." so could be a married couple, "F. and R.", which would fit with the use of the first person plural.

Edited 11 December , 2022 by aodhdubh