The Path of Peace: walking the Western Front

[phil andrade]

Sir Anthony Seldon’s new book has just been published.

A fitting thing to buy on Armistice Day, but before I buy it, please offer your comments if you’ve read it.

 

 Phil 

[Crunchy]

The first   three chapters can be read here Phil.https://www.amazon.co.uk/Path-Peace-Walking-Western-Front/dp/1838957405/ref=sr_1_1?crid=P2VC2IOAZOG8&keywords=The+Path+of+Peace%3A+walking+the+Western+Front&qid=1668305303&sprefix=the+path+of+peace+walking+the+western+front%2Caps%2C351&sr=8-1

[phil andrade]

Thanks so much, Crunchy.

 Fool that I am, all I’ve got there is the Amazon pitch with some reviews and an invitation to click and buy.

 How do I gain access to the first three chapters ?

 

 Phil 

[tootrock]

Click on the picture of the book on the left - that works for me.

Martin

 

[phil andrade]

Like a woodpecker, I’ve been banging on the front of my iPhone. Nothing happens.

Kind of you to offer help.

 

 Phil 

[Crunchy]

You should have ‘Look inside’ at the top of the cover. Click on that.

[pierssc]

Works for me on my iPad - having clicked on "look inside" and got the front cover, just scroll down.

[phil andrade]

The “look inside” feature is not showing on the picture of the book.

 

Heavens, pals, you’re being patient with me !

 

I wonder if I suffer from some hysterical blind spot when it comes to matters of iT.

 

 Phil 

[Crunchy]

Hi Phil,

Go to Amazon.co.uk and search for The Path of Peace: Walking the Western Front. The list of books will come up. Select the book and it should come up withe th copy of the book with the Look Inside function at the top of the cover. It works for me on my computer.

Cheers

Chris

[phil andrade]

Hallelujah!

Ipad did the job.

 

Quite enjoyed the sample, although I couldn’t suppress the feeling that it was more about Sir Anthony than about the Great War.

I think I’ll buy it.

 

Thanks again for helping me.

 

Phil

[58 Div Mule]

I had a look on the Amazon link and am tempted too. I think the idea of a long distance walking route along the Western Front has an appeal.

58 DM.

[pierssc]

18 hours ago, phil andrade said:

Quite enjoyed the sample, although I couldn’t suppress the feeling that it was more about Sir Anthony than about the Great War.

I thought he went on rather about the number of houses he had.

I think I'll wait for your reviews of the whole thing!

[58 Div Mule]

Went to visit my Godmother today and guess what? A copy of the book as a Christmas present!

Thank you Celia.

58 DM.

 

 

[phil andrade]

All in all, a rewarding read.

Sir Anthony gives a heartfelt tribute to the people who underwent the ordeal, and conveys how our grandparent’s trauma has passed down the generations and haunts us still.

 

Phil

[Dragon]

Thanks for pointing out the extract.  Some of that Alsace bit is very closely related to my words. I wasn't asked.

 

Can anyone who has the book please look at the acknowledgements and tell me whether my blog thebluelinefrontier.com is credited? Or am I?

 

I haven't read the Vosges part (it isn't in the extract) but someone associated with the path idea had lots of advice, insights and guidance from both Dave O'Mara and me and we weren't credited on either the website or anywhere else that I can find. Our thoughts and local knowledge gained over years of visiting were shamelessly swept up by someone who was clearly not familiar enough with the area to be attempting to write a guide to it.

 

On a practical level I have no idea why he headed into touristy Colmar for his dinner when there are dozens of very good restaurants far closer to his walking route. And the idea that you can almost smell the Rhine from 40 km away near Pfetterhouse is nonsense. If you're writing history you don't engage in fantasy. I had enough of his shallow, self-centred, self-obsessed, incoherent muddy prose in the little extract on Amazon. 

 

Gwyn

 

[Michelle Young]

I can’t see a credit to you or your blog. An article written by David O’Mara for the WFA is acknowledged. Curiosity got the better of me and I purchased the kindle version. 

[Michelle Young]

I must admit that based on what I’ve read so far, I much prefer this book. I couldn’t agree more with your summary Gwyn. 

 

[Dragon]

21 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

I can’t see a credit to you or your blog. An article written by David O’Mara for the WFA is acknowledged. 

Thank you very much for looking, Michelle. I'm not surprised.

I have a complete email trail of all the correspondence in 2017 with the person (not Seldon) who wanted considerable detail about how to walk the section which is in the Vosges, information about local contacts, people with local knowledge, passion and awareness of the significance of the parts of the sector where the proposed walk would be, and so on. We were promised that we would be contributing to a significant and important project. Among other material, I sent him the guide I've written (30 pages), guides to walking specific battlefields such as la Tête des Faux, a 7 page document answering lots of his questions and fended off requests for my photos. It took ages.

He wrote, "...all appropriate acknowledgements or costs will be made and met. ...  I aim to ensure all contributions made to the project are fully recognized..."

"All appropriate acknowledgments," "I aim to ensure..." At the time, naïvely, I didn't recognise these as get out clauses. It means that you can pass off someone else's thoughts as your own.

I am livid. Seething. Seeing my words plucked off my webpages and stuck in that self-congratulatory rambling text is infuriating and I can do nothing about it.

Edited 5 January , 2023 by Dragon
Emboldening. Text edit.

[Michelle Young]

I’ve got to his description of walking the Loos battlefield. He’s messed this up big time by confusion between the Bois Carre cemetery at Thelus and the Bois Caree cemetery at Hulluch. Also says that Lichfield crater cemetery is at Loos. 

[WhiteStarLine]

13 hours ago, Dragon said:

and I can do nothing about it.

Dragon, of course you can.

Assuming the facts are exactly as stated, then start with proper legal advice.

Follow the advice you are given, which might be to contact his publisher, detailing either use of copyright material or, if relevant, plagiarism (if he has directly used your material without attribution).  Say that you intend to take this further.

Alternatively, if you choose another path, you might post honest reviews of the book, citing that it appears to rely in parts of your material without attribution.  His phrase "appropriate attribution" is not a get-out clause if a major portion of the book relies on your efforts.  But don't combine the two options and you may be advised to cease discussing on a forum like this.

If you are livid and seething and can prove the facts you have described, take the emotion out and use the law.  Best of luck - you have my sympathies as I volunteer some specialist skills and IP to an organisation that does respect the copyright and it would be awful to be in your position.

[Dragon]

Thank you for taking the time to reply, WhiteStarLine.

I have to be clear that the person who used the help of David O'Mara and me and promised attribution was not Seldon. It was someone who was preparing the section of the walk in the Vosges. At that stage the project was to create a signed walk along the entire front and the person needed advice on the route. Sometime after that a website was built and in that version there was no recognition of those who had helped. I thought that was ungracious and discourteous. It reflected poorly on the project. 

I don't know how much, if any, of our advice made it into the section on the Vosges in Seldon's book because I haven't read it.

Seldon has used some recognisable phrases of mine but he is experienced enough not to lift entire paragraphs. This is why I'm angry: anyone who knows me and has been in contact with me about that sector of the Western Front knows that I freely and generously share ideas, suggestions and material because I want to help people to enjoy a visit to the region. That's why I wrote a piece for the most recent Salient Points and let them have lots of photos. My blog is there for people to dip into if they wish. The unspoken contract is that if you benefit from someone else's experience and writing, you let them know and, if appropriate, say that you would like to use it. It's just doing the decent thing. 

I know that members of this forum have lifted entire pages of the Drill Halls site, including my own photos, and put them unattributed on their own websites. One said, when challenged, that it was done accidentally (but it's still there). I know that heritage organisations have also copied our text, but added attribution when contacted. I know that this problem is replicated over and over and over again when people put their material into the public domain. Yet when a small Cadets group email and ask permission to copy material, you know that someone somewhere is still teaching the basics of plagiarism. If teens know how to do it, if teens can do what is basically just good manners, why can't adults?

 

Gwyn

 

Edited 5 January , 2023 by Dragon

[Marilyne]

Hi all, 

Thanks for point out this book. 

I have read "walking the line", which I really much enjoyed. I don't intent to read this one until I started on the trip myself. Getting a month off is utopic for the next 15 years, even a week right now is difficult; but be it in stage, I WILL walk the Via Sacra one day. And write my own report on it. And maybe my own book.... at least makes a thousand pics en route ..; 

but for now I can only dream about it ... 

M.

[knittinganddeath]

On 05/01/2023 at 13:21, Dragon said:

Seldon has used some recognisable phrases of mine but he is experienced enough not to lift entire paragraphs.

In case it's relevant: Plagiarism doesn't just mean copying a particular phrase/sentence word for word. It can also involve subbing out words with synonyms but keeping the grammatical structure of the sentence. Anti-plagiarism software detects that kind of trickery and will also tell you to what degree texts are the same (percentage-wise).

I wish that I could do more besides hope that you find a positive resolution.

[The Scorer]

My copy arrived yesterday, and is on the pile of books to read. I have also read "Walking the Line", so it'll be interesting to compare the two.   

[Dragon]

On 10/01/2023 at 18:12, knittinganddeath said:

In case it's relevant: Plagiarism doesn't just mean copying a particular phrase/sentence word for word. It can also involve subbing out words with synonyms but keeping the grammatical structure of the sentence. Anti-plagiarism software detects that kind of trickery and will also tell you to what degree texts are the same (percentage-wise).

I wish that I could do more besides hope that you find a positive resolution.

Thank you - the information about subbing is an interesting perspective and I wasn't really aware of that. For the time being I have decided to regard it as tiresome and cheap behaviour from someone who really ought to know better. The book hasn't been completely rapturously received and I wasn't impressed at all by its quality, that of the maps or the inclusion of mistakes. Michelle (above) mentions the account by the Jenkins couple which is much more engaging.