TDH50 Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Could anyone assist me please by giving their opinion on the wording in Section 7 of this Attestation Form? To my eyes it appears to say “Canadian”, but I can’t relate this to a labourer from Tyneside. Form courtesy of National Archives Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 It does match. He served in the Canadian Army Service Corps, and you can view his service record online at no cost, thanks to Libraries & Archives Canada. The preview indicates that he enlisted, and this was countersigned by a in Toronto. It also states he served 12 years in the militia. Whether that was in England or Canada is not readily apparent.https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=435389 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Did he subsequently get shipped from Hounslow to join the North Russia Relief Force? There's an excellent book by Damian Wright on the subject, if you are interested in learning more. A number of Australians joined up for "Special Service" and were enlisted in the Royal Fusiliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Blast! Courtesy Fold3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 (edited) Discharged from C.A.S.C. on 17th Sept 1919 Enlisted in Royal Fusiliers 7th February 1920-in France for 163/243 days the rest 'Home' posting before discharge-attached to the fire brigade in Calais George Edited 9 November , 2022 by George Rayner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDH50 Posted 9 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Thank you gents, he was invalided from Calais in 1920. Are you able to explain why a UK based labourer would enlist in the Canadian forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Did he have a brother called George Arthur Hall by any chance? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDH50 Posted 9 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Not to my knowledge and I’m sure that this is the case as Arthur is not a “family” name. He had a son called George Andrew Hall born 1895. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Just a 'wild card' that came from Toronto so please ignore the suggestion. Have you looked for transatlantic journeys for him? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDH50 Posted 9 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2022 No, good thinking. I shall have a browse, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 24 minutes ago, TDH50 said: Thank you gents, he was invalided from Calais in 1920. Are you able to explain why a UK based labourer would enlist in the Canadian forces? I think the question you should be asking is "How did he come to be in Toronto as at the time of his enlistment." Who or what were the "12th York militia" in Canada? Was it the case that the conurbation was known as York as at the time of the War of 1812, but the wider area has been known as Toronto for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawhiri Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 (edited) A couple of things, firstly he seems to have added seven years to his birth year, as according to the Northumberland parish registers on FamilySearch he was christened on 27 August 1871 in Gosforth, Northumberland. He also married Isabella Chisholm Brown on 30 April 1894 in Gateshead, Durham, and a birth year of 1878 would suggest he was only 16 at the time of his marriage, which seems extremely unlikely. There is also a Canadian passenger list from September 1919 that has him landing in Halifax, Nova Scotia, on what looks like a ship full of returning troops, as he is recorded under his original Canadian service number (ignore the bit that says he's female, this appears to be a transcription error). This also shows that he is returning to his wife in Toronto. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2H2Y-XYT Although Toronto has been known as Toronto for a very long time, administratively the area was known as York until relatively recently, so the 12th York Militia would indeed be located in the Toronto area. They seem to have been headquartered in Aurora, which is just to the north of Toronto. https://qyrangmuseum.com/12th-york-rangers-1866-1913/ Searching the Canadian passenger lists I can find a George and Isabella Hall of the right ages arriving in October 1909 aboard the Victorian. Their arrival record indicates that they are both returning Canadians, and that their initial arrival date in Canada was in September 1902. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2H2V-CY3 Knowing that might help you narrow down exactly when they arrived in Canada. Edited 9 November , 2022 by Tawhiri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Now you wouldn't have thought there were too many people with a name like George Bailes Hall would you? 'He'is on the electoral roll for Newcastle Upon Tyne for 1919- WR/258660 120th Rly Coy RE at 4, Bryson Street. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2836350:60918 If he is/was Canadian would he be on the electoral roll? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, George Rayner said: If he is/was Canadian would he be on the electoral roll? I have come across many many instances of people on the AVLs in 1918 and later, with their dominion forces details, Australia and Canada mostly, with addresses in North Wales. I haven't looked into it in detail, but I assume all emigrated to the dominions before the Great War, and enlisted there. Of the attestation forms I have seen, their reported nationality was British. You have to remember that Australians and Canadians at the time were British citizens, in fact until after WWII. So I suppose because of their citizenship, and had been born here they were entitled to vote. Edited 9 November , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 32 minutes ago, Tawhiri said: he was christened on 27 August 1871 in Gosforth, Northumberland. He also married Isabella Chisholm Brown on 30 April 1894 in Gateshead, Durham, and a birth year of 1878 would suggest he was only 16 at the time of his marriage, Have you got the dates the wrong way round? In the records on Ancestry Name George Bailes Hall Spouse Isabella Chisholm Brown Birth abt 1879 Northumberland, England Marriage 30 Apr 1894 Gateshead George Thanks Dai-hadn't considered that position George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDH50 Posted 9 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Tawhiri, Thanks for your research. The person in question is my grand-uncle and my family research has come up with him being 10yrs old in the 1871 census and that he married Isabella Chisholm Brown, as you say, in 1894. With regard to George’s comment about a doppelgänger there is a George Bailes Hall on the 1919 electoral role in Newcastle but he appears to be married to Elizabeth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Not to mention the one in Edinburgh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDH50 Posted 9 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2022 I haven’t found him (yet)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 7 minutes ago, TDH50 said: 10yrs old in the 1871 census Father Thomas Bailes Hall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDH50 Posted 9 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Spot on, 1839 to 1893. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Not any closer to answering why he joined CASC though! It is however very fascinating George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawhiri Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, George Rayner said: In the records on Ancestry Name George Bailes Hall Spouse Isabella Chisholm Brown Birth abt 1879 Northumberland, England Marriage 30 Apr 1894 Gateshead According to the transcription on FamilySearch the bridegroom was aged 22, and the bride was aged 23, which implies birth years of 1871/72 and 1870/71 respectively. The bridegroom's father's name then links to the christening of George Bailes Hall on 27 August 1871. As others have noted there are several other George Bailes Hall's floating around at the same time. 5 hours ago, George Rayner said: 'He'is on the electoral roll for Newcastle Upon Tyne for 1919- WR/258660 120th Rly Coy RE at 4, Bryson Street. This I think is the George Bailes Hall born in 1882, who's father and mother were John George and Catherine Hall (mystery solved in a subsequent post). FamilySearch has another George Bailes Hall with the same birth year serving with the Royal Engineers in Edinburgh, so I'm wondering if these two are the same individual, unless there were two George Bailes Hall's born in exactly the same year. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLLL-LMWS https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVBR-SPHS Edited 9 November , 2022 by Tawhiri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 34 minutes ago, TDH50 said: 10yrs old in the 1871 census Tawhiri how do we square this circle? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDH50 Posted 9 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Sorry chaps, my mistake 10 yrs old in 1881 census!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawhiri Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 41 minutes ago, TDH50 said: Sorry chaps, my mistake 10 yrs old in 1881 census!! Circle squared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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