RNAS Aircrew attached to Artillery units 1915

[pete-c]

Has anyone on the Forum ever come across the above? 

In January 1915 Winston Churchill (First Lord of the Admiralty) submitted that pilots and observers from HMS Ark Royal be attached to the army in France for practical training in observing artillery fire.  I have yet to find anything referring to this in AIR or ADM files so am wondering if some artillery unit records may hold the required information.

[KizmeRD]

I would be surprised if any of the RNAS pilots or Observers had time available to swan off to France during January 1915 - the ship was extremely busy with sea trials and completing her work-up period prior to departing to the Mediterranean (sailed 2 February).
Surely Churchill would have had more important things to do at the time, rather than interfering with ARK ROYAL’s aircrew training? (but I could be wrong!).

MB

[michaeldr]

Pete, do you have a more precise date for this submission?

[michaeldr]

I think that this is what you are looking for Pete,

The idea seems to have been Oliver's, but immediately endorsed by WSC.

The above is as it appears on p.193 of Documents Relating to the Naval Air Service, Vol.I 1908-1918, ed. Capt S W Roskill DSC, RN, MA., pub. The Navy Records Society, 1969 

Edited 3 November , 2022 by michaeldr

[pete-c]

12 hours ago, michaeldr said:

I think that this is what you are looking for Pete,

The idea seems to have been Oliver's, but immediately endorsed by WSC.

The above is as it appears on p.193 of Documents Relating to the Naval Air Service, Vol.I 1908-1918, ed. Capt S W Roskill DSC, RN, MA., pub. The Navy Records Society, 1969 

Hi Michael.

This Minute is what got me thinking and is at the heart of my query.  What I'm wondering is if these directions were ever carried through prior to Ark Royal sailing.  My belief is that they were not as I have yet to come across any mention - in official documents or personal diaries, recollections etc. - to suggest that any of Ark Royal's pilots and observers ever had such training in France. 

As with the whole of the period leading up to Ark Royal's sailing this Minute smacks of panic by the Admiralty as they realise that none of the aircrew posted to the ship have had any experience of the tasks they will shortly be ordered to perform.  

Many thanks to yourself and MB for your respective input.

 

[michaeldr]

Pete,

does the ship's log tell you anything useful?

19 January 1915, Harwich, Lat 51.9, Long 1.3

11:05am: 807, 817 & 806 arrived alongside from EMPRES.S. & ENGADINE. Hoisted in 807
3:00pm: Hoisted in 816, 808 & 817 & placed them in hold

22 January 1915, Harwich, Lat 51.9, Long 1.3

2:15pm: Hoisted out 817 and 816 and sent them to EMPRESS. And RIVIERA in charge of Lieutenant. Douglas and Sub-Lieutenant Garnett
4:00pm: Sent 808 to ENGADINE in charge of Lieutenant Bronst

1 February 1915, Sheerness, Lat 51.45, Long 0.77

3:45pm: Seaplane 808 returned Lieutenant Bronst in charge

 

What were Bronst & 808 doing between 22nd Jan & 1st Feb?

[horatio2]

Incorrectly transcribed log entries - BRONST should read BROMET (Geoffrey Rhodes). Nothing jumps off the pages of his records.

[michaeldr]

Thanks for that important correction, H2

[pete-c]

3 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Pete,

does the ship's log tell you anything useful?

19 January 1915, Harwich, Lat 51.9, Long 1.3

11:05am: 807, 817 & 806 arrived alongside from EMPRES.S. & ENGADINE. Hoisted in 807
3:00pm: Hoisted in 816, 808 & 817 & placed them in hold

22 January 1915, Harwich, Lat 51.9, Long 1.3

2:15pm: Hoisted out 817 and 816 and sent them to EMPRESS. And RIVIERA in charge of Lieutenant. Douglas and Sub-Lieutenant Garnett
4:00pm: Sent 808 to ENGADINE in charge of Lieutenant Bronst

1 February 1915, Sheerness, Lat 51.45, Long 0.77

3:45pm: Seaplane 808 returned Lieutenant Bronst in charge

 

What were Bronst & 808 doing between 22nd Jan & 1st Feb?

Michael,

I think I'm correct in understanding that during this period Engadine, Empress and Riviera were all being prepared for a proposed second raid on Cuxhaven - which ultimately did not take place.  I believe that Bromet was with Engadine as part of this proposed raid.  Both he and 808 returned to Ark Royal, from Felixstowe, the day before she sailed for the Aegean.