Blue Dragoon Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Hello I'm doing a quick bit of research on 2Lt Christopher Hatton South Staffs. It appears he sadly committed suicide in Grantham during training with 3/6th Bn South Staffs. This photo is attributed to him on ancestry. The Cap badge confuses me and the collar dogs look like Herefordshire Regiment. Can anyone confirm Cap Badge and Collar Dogs? many thanks, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 31 October , 2022 Admin Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Cap badge looks like It could be Manchesters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Dragoon Posted 31 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Thanks Michelle, what about the collar dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 31 October , 2022 Admin Share Posted 31 October , 2022 I’m not sure, I’m awaiting the real experts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Dragoon Posted 31 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 October , 2022 I agree more Manchester's than General Service but the collar dogs have got me confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 31 October , 2022 Admin Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Initially I thought GS then changed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Herefordshire Regiment. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Not Mcrs. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 (edited) Manchester cap badge and Herefordshire collar dogs Edited 31 October , 2022 by jay dubaya awful predictive text... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Herefordshire Regiment (TF), the officers cap badge was the Hereford coat of arms with collar badges of the lion, a larger version of which was the other ranks cap badge. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 30 minutes ago, SteveE said: Herefordshire Regiment (TF), the officers cap badge was the Hereford coat of arms I never knew that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 (edited) It seems that both badges were worn, but it’s not entirely clear how the policy was practised. NB. Blue Dragoons photo appears to be a rare example of that quality, I haven’t been able to find another example for the Herefordshire Regiment, even among the Imperial War Museum collection. Edited 1 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: NB. Blue Dragoons photo appears to be a rare example of that quality, I haven’t been able to find another example for the Herefordshire Regiment, even among the Imperial War Museum collection. I won't post the image as it's copyrighted but a link to a good group photo is here... https://herefordshirehistory.org.uk/archive/herefordshire-images/bustin-image-collection/military-portraits/160778-g36-530-18-officers-of-herefordshire-regiment-jpg? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SteveE said: I won't post the image as it's copyrighted but a link to a good group photo is here... https://herefordshirehistory.org.uk/archive/herefordshire-images/bustin-image-collection/military-portraits/160778-g36-530-18-officers-of-herefordshire-regiment-jpg? Steve Thank you Steve, certainly more consistent with the Hereford coat of Arms in that photo, although very interestingly only a few are wearing the decreed officers service dress bronze badges (and several are without collar badges). Most are wearing a gilt badge intended for the universal coloured forage cap that they would ordinarily wear with blue patrols or other undress. It has the look of a transitional period. Edited 1 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 The coat of arms badge was replaced by the lion badge which was the silver plated lion and torse without the scroll, I'm not sure when though. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Dragoon Posted 1 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2022 (edited) Great feedback guys, many thanks. So Herefordshire Regiment. He has a Herefordshire connection but trained in Grantham with 3/6th South Staffs having been earlier rejected. Unless anyone can tell me to the contrary I'm loathe to attribute the ancestry photo at the top of the thread to him? This is another ancestry pic attributed as him. Is this the same bloke as the one at the top? Edited 1 November , 2022 by Blue Dragoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 13 minutes ago, Blue Dragoon said: Great feedback guys, many thanks. So Herefordshire Regiment. He has a Herefordshire connection but trained in Grantham with 3/6th South Staffs having been earlier rejected. Unless anyone can tell me to the contrary I'm loathe to attribute the ancestry photo at the top of the thread to him? This is another ancestry pic attributed as him. Is this the same bloke as the one at the top? It looks to me to be the same man. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 For comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Dragoon Posted 1 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2022 Many thanks. If these are pics of Christopher Hatton I cant find any record of him with the Herefordshire Regiment early on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 25 minutes ago, Blue Dragoon said: Many thanks. If these are pics of Christopher Hatton I cant find any record of him with the Herefordshire Regiment early on It looks like the same individual to me too. He appears very young in the photo wearing mess dress uniform, which would fit with the Herefordshire Regiment being his initial regiment upon receiving a commission (it is also the correct regimental pattern mess dress). I imagine his family were local patricians and supporters of the regiment. There is quite an active museum facility concerning the regiment, perhaps you can contact them with your inquiry: https://herefordshirelightinfantrymuseum.com/history/the-herefordshire-regiment-tf/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, CorporalPunishment said: The coat of arms badge was replaced by the lion badge which was the silver plated lion and torse without the scroll, I'm not sure when though. Pete. Thank you Pete, it’s interesting to see the progressive development of the insignia for this less well known regiment. The cap badge with just lion and torse must be exceedingly rare, as the only example I can find is a collar badge. Presumably the badge you describe might be that seen worn by the lieutenant colonel with cuff rank whose image I posted above. The design is notably a Lion of England of similar pattern to that favoured by the King’s Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment). Edited 1 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 23 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Thank you Pete, it’s interesting to see the progressive development of the insignia for this less well known regiment. The cap badge with just lion and torse must be exceedingly rare, as the only example I can find is a collar badge. Presumably the badge you describe might be that seen worn by the lieutenant colonel with cuff rank whose image I posted above. The design is notably a Lion of England of similar pattern to that favoured by the King’s Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment). As I understand it the coat of arms badge was worn originally by the officers of the Herefordshire Battalion, KSLI (TF) from 1908 to 1909 when they were reformed as the Herefordshire Regiment (TF). It continued to be worn after that but for how long I couldn't say. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 November , 2022 Share Posted 1 November , 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said: As I understand it the coat of arms badge was worn originally by the officers of the Herefordshire Battalion, KSLI (TF) from 1908 to 1909 when they were reformed as the Herefordshire Regiment (TF). It continued to be worn after that but for how long I couldn't say. Pete. That makes sense - here is the bimetal version of the badge that they were supposed to wear only in their universal coloured forage caps, but that’s seen in the group photo with drab service dress, whose link was posted by SteveE. Edited 2 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Dragoon Posted 2 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2022 22 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: It looks like the same individual to me too. He appears very young in the photo wearing mess dress uniform, which would fit with the Herefordshire Regiment being his initial regiment upon receiving a commission (it is also the correct regimental pattern mess dress). I imagine his family were local patricians and supporters of the regiment. There is quite an active museum facility concerning the regiment, perhaps you can contact them with your inquiry: https://herefordshirelightinfantrymuseum.com/history/the-herefordshire-regiment-tf/ Many thanks! Very grateful for all the feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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