KSLI Uniforms

[Stevejm]

 I fear that my question may be beyond the scope of this forum so I apologize in advance but I feel that the knowledge that I am seeking can be found among the members of GWF.I would be grateful if anyone could give me any information on the two photos that I have of my grandfather when he served with 2KSLI in India in 1903-08 after departure from SA after the 2nd Boer War. One photo is wearing Khaki style uniform and is labeled saying that it was taken in India wearing his SA uniform but my question is wouldn’t the uniform have been the same in India at that time. I note his helmet is on the floor beside him. The second photo was taken in 1908 and my question is. Is he wearing a red dress tunic? If anyone has any colored drawings showing the khaki and red dress uniforms of KSLI at that time I would much appreciate if you could post them as I have had no luck finding any.

Edited 27 October , 2022 by Stevejm

[KENDO]

[Stevejm]

21 minutes ago, KENDO said:

Thanks. Presumably that is the red tunic shown in the second photo 

Edited 27 October , 2022 by Stevejm

[FROGSMILE]

On 27/10/2022 at 07:46, Stevejm said:

 I fear that my question may be beyond the scope of this forum so I apologize in advance but I feel that the knowledge that I am seeking can be found among the members of GWF.I would be grateful if anyone could give me any information on the two photos that I have of my grandfather when he served with 2KSLI in India in 1903-08 after departure from SA after the 2nd Boer War. One photo is wearing Khaki style uniform and is labeled saying that it was taken in India wearing his SA uniform but my question is wouldn’t the uniform have been the same in India at that time. I note his helmet is on the floor beside him. The second photo was taken in 1908 and my question is. Is he wearing a red dress tunic? If anyone has any colored drawings showing the khaki and red dress uniforms of KSLI at that time I would much appreciate if you could post them as I have had no luck finding any.

In the first photo he is wearing khaki drill field dress as worn on the veldt of South Africa, but also worn in the field in India in such turbulent areas as the North West Frontier bordering on Afghanistan.

In the second photo he is wearing the India Pattern Foreign Service Frock.  This was typical in barracks dress.  It was unlined and loosely tailored and in the years after it was introduced it gradually came to replace the much more expensive and padded full dress uniform that then became confined to the Home Establishment (Britain and its islands) only.

The India Frock (for short) featured 5-buttons instead of the 7-buttons of a full dress tunic and was decorated by white piping along the base of the collar, around the shoulder straps and forming a decorative trefoil loop on the cuff.  Ranks of Sergeant and above had additional piping around the front edge and bottom edge of the frock that marked out their higher status at a glance (see pictures below).  Drummers had their own special piping in red and white.  Collars were usually in the regiment’s facing colour.

The images posted by KENDO above show Home Service Full Dress, and are nothing like the Foreign Service Frocks worn as best dress in India since around the time of the 2nd Boer War. 

 

 

Edited 31 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Stevejm]

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

In the first photo he is wearing khaki drill field dress as worn on the veldt of South Africa, but also worn in the field in India in such turbulent areas as the North West Frontier bordering on Afghanistan.

In the second photo he is wearing the India Pattern Foreign Service Frock.  This was typical in barracks dress.  It was unlined and loosely tailored and in the years after it was introduced it gradually came to replace the much more expensive and padded full dress uniform that then became confined to the Home Establishment (Britain and its islands) only.

The India Frock (for short) featured 5-buttons instead of the 7-buttons of a full dress tunic and was decorated by white piping along the base of the collar, around the shoulder straps and forming a decorative trefoil loop on the cuff.  Ranks of Sergeant and above had additional piping around the front edge and bottom edge of the frock that marked out their higher status at a glance (see pictures below).  Drummers had their own special piping in red and white. 

The images posted by KENDO above show Home Service Full Dress, and are nothing like the Foreign Service Frocks worn as best dress in India since around the time of the 2nd Boer War. 

 

 

Great answer thanks. So would he have worn the khaki field dress when they were out on mountain exercises in India? They spent most of their time in India in Ranikhet apart from when they were out on exercises. Is the first drawing that you posted what they would have worn day to day in the cantonment?

Edited 27 October , 2022 by Stevejm

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Stevejm said:

Great answer thanks. So would he have worn the khaki field dress when they were out on mountain exercises in India? They spent most of their time in India in Ranikhet apart from when they were out on exercises. Is the first drawing that you posted what they would have worn day to day in the cantonment?

The answer is yes and yes.

Khaki Drill (a stout [weighty] cotton twill) on ‘field days’ (the term for training) and ‘marching order’ (on operations).

Scarlet Indian Frocks for guard duty and review order.  There were usually weekly parades in this dress during the cooler half of the year.

In the hot season the dress changed to whites, but after 1902 this was gradually replaced by starched up KD, and whites were not so often seen except for hot weather reviews (ceremonial parades).

Edited 27 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Stevejm]

24 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

The answer is yes and yes.  Khaki Drill (a stout [weighty] cotton twill) on ‘field days’ (the term for training) and ‘marching order’ (on operations).  Scarlet Indian Frocks for guard duty and review order.  There were usually weekly parades in this dress during the cooler half of the year.  In the hot season the dress changed to whites, but after 1902 this was gradually replaced by starched up KD, and whites were not so often seen except for hot weather reviews (ceremonial parades).

Got it thanks! When they were off duty in India would they have worn the red frock with some kind of cap? 

Edited 27 October , 2022 by Stevejm

[FROGSMILE]

53 minutes ago, Stevejm said:

Got it thanks! When they were off duty in India would they have worn the red frock with some kind of cap? 

Always the helmet when marching-out of cantonments.  In barracks a folding field service cap (of Austrian style) was favoured from the mid 1890s. 

Edited 27 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Stevejm]

25 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Always the helmet when marching-out of cantonments.  In barracks a folding field service cap (of Austrian style) was favoured from the mid 1890s. 

Something like this?

[FROGSMILE]

17 minutes ago, Stevejm said:

Something like this?

Exactly like that, but in plain dark blue and made of coarse serge.  They were initially worn with a collar badge as insignia but after 1898 the full sized cap badges were designed and issued to replace them.

 

Edited 27 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Stevejm]

52 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Exactly like that, but in plain dark blue and made of coarse serge.  They were initially worn with a collar badge as insignia but after 1898 the full sized cap badges were designed and issued to replace them.

 

Thanks