2nd battalion Leicestershire regiment diversionary attack at Loos 25th sept 1915

[weshallremember]

 war diary is the 12th highland light inf

21st oct 1915 

at 12.30pm marched to Vermelles and relieved the Essex reg and royal fusiliers

in sector d2 near the quarries

with the 7th kosb on the left

and 8th kosb on the right

so we know they were near the quarries

 WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHAT  D2 SECTOR STANDS FOR IF POSSIBLE

  TREVOR

[weshallremember]

found this excellent map which shows the quarries on the october british  front line

 

trevor

[weshallremember]

could this be the answer

french word for quarries is carries

location g6 d2

no trench names but still has to be the location

trevor

[weshallremember]

brian

i think this matches with your sketch that has essex lane

 

The October 1915 WD of 46 Infantry Brigade, 15 Div records that the Brigade occupied the trenches from G 12 a 5 4 to G 5 d 1 3. 12 HLI was in that position on 25/10/1915. I have a map taken from the September 1915 WD of  63 Infantry Brigade which I have cropped to show those co ordinates near the Quarries. You can also use it to overlay the sketch from 2 KRR.

trevor

[weshallremember]

more mentions of the ELUSIVE ESSEX TRENCH

10th SCOTISH RIFLES  WD 

relieved the 12th highland light inf 26th october 1915

in front line at essex trench 

germans made bombing attack on essex trench evening of the 30th

easily repulsed leaving half a dozen dead behind

also this 

  

47th (London) Division – December 1915 to February 1916.

---

At the end of the second week in December the Division relieved the 15th Division in the north sector of the Loos salient, which included the quarries and the Hohenzollern Redoubt. The legacy of the awful fighting which had taken place in these trenches on and after 25th September, in the shape of half-buried bodies and a general atmosphere of mortality, alone made this part of the line almost uninhabitable, and there were other disadvantages. Near the quarries a precarious hold was maintained by us on some rising ground in front of our main line by two long parallel saps which ran across to the German line. We held these saps and piece of trench joining their heads, and so completing the Hairpin. We also held a piece of Essex Trench, which continued the top of the Hairpin southwards. An equally high value was set on this position by our Higher Command and by the Boche. The former looked upon it as a valuable tactical point; the latter as a piece of their front-line system insolently occupied by the enemy. The day after the Division took over the line the enemy raided Essex Trench. This raid, and another, was successfully repulsed by the 15th Battalion, who had three anxious days defending the position. Their success in doing so earned the praise of the Corps Commander (Sir Henry Rawlinson). A few days later the Boche renewed his efforts, and succeeded in bombing the 15th Battalion out of some twenty yards of Essex Trench.

trevor

[TEW]

Sector D2 would normally be a desigated portion of the trench line and not a map reference.

TEW

[WhiteStarLine]

15 hours ago, weshallremember said:

location g6 d2

This map shows Essex Lane as a long trench stretching from Hulluch west towards Vermelles, close to one of Google's satellite image markers for the 1915 Battle of Loos.  Runs from G.17. to G.24.  Click to enlarge.

 

[brianmorris547]

WSL

I think this is a continuation of Essex Lane that I found in the WD of 2 KRR, 1 Div on the previous page. G 17 to G 24 was not near the Quarries and it is Essex Trench we are after. What do you think of my assumption that Essex Trench is the Trench that 9 Bn Essex Regt attacked and took 18 to 20/10/1915. (see last post on page 1).

Another cropped map from the September 1915 WD of 63 Infantry Brigade.

Brian

 

 

Edited 30 October , 2022 by brianmorris547

[Howard]

27 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

WSL

I think this is a continuation of Essex Lane that I found in the WD of 2 KRR, 1 Div on the previous page. G 17 to G 24 was not near the Quarries and it is Essex Trench we are after. What do you think of my assumption that Essex Trench is the Trench that 9 Bn Essex Regt attacked and took 18 to 20/10/1915. (see last post on page 1).

Another cropped map from the September 1915 WD of 63 Infantry Brigade.

Brian

 

 

That is the non-secret edition if TrenchMapper's ID=m_5_000569. At that time, non-secret maps did not show British trenches.

ID=m_5_000569 is hand annotated in square G12, that appears to match the hand drawn map a few posts ago. (Where have the post numbers gone to??)

Howard

Edited 30 October , 2022 by Howard

[weshallremember]

BRIAN

hat's off to you sir

you are a genius

i should have read the 9th essex diaries properly

18th oct states 

ordered to secure the portion of the trench s/w of the quarries G6 c TO G12a

did so with great gusto

relieved by highland light inf on 21st oct

trevor

[brianmorris547]

Howard

I have read your thread on "Maps" in "Documents" and will explore Trench Mapper soon.

Thanks

Brian

[brianmorris547]

Trevor

The November 1915 WD of 15 Div HQ General Staff WO 95/1912/1-4 has a number of Message Forms attached. One is dated 12/11 (Ancestry p 98) and is from 45 Infantry Brigade to say that the Bn holding Essex Trench reported enemy shelling. The Div HQ WD for 12/11 records that the enemy shelled D2.

The WD for 45 Infantry Brigade (WO 1942/1-5) for 12/11 records that a message was sent from 7 R S F reporting that the enemy were bombing Essex Trench heavily and shelling the supports.

The WD of 7 Royal Scots Fusiliers (WO 95/1947/1-7) records that on 11/11 they took over D2 from the A&SH and on 12/11 reported a bombing encounter in the Hairpin. 

Brian

[brianmorris547]

The WD of 13 Bn Royal Scots records that on 01/11/1915 The Bn took over the firing line of D2 sector on the SW edge of the quarries.

The October 1915 WD of the Commander Royal Engineers 15 Div records that on 21/10/1915 91 Field Company went into D Sector. (Also that he received plans of the trenches from the CRE 12 Div - not found in the WDs). 

The WD of 91 FC, who were in D sector until 29/10, records that on 24/10 they erected Chevaux de Frise at G 12 a 5 4.

More confirmation that D2 was at the SW edge of the Quarries.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

The WD of 47 Div HQ GS for 20/12/1915 records that at 7 am the enemy bombed the barricade in Essex Trench and forced back the 15th (London) Bn some 20 yards. A sketch is attached which shows that Essex Trench was indeed the section of trench attacked by the 9 Essex on 18/10/1915. Compare the sketch to the maps from 35 IB and 9 Essex that I posted on Saturday. On 30/12 the Germans blew four mines under the Hairpin and took the position. 

TNA WO 95/2699

Brian

Edited 31 October , 2022 by brianmorris547

[weshallremember]

big thanks to Brian

for finding the only  piece of document in the world

with Essex trench WRITTEN ON IT

a part taken german trench at the top of the hairpin 

and all the other details he supplied

makes a very interesting read

trevor

[WhiteStarLine]

2 hours ago, weshallremember said:

big thanks to Brian

Totally agree.  To get to the bottom of this you need to trawl several unit war diaries looking for primary evidence and corroborating it.  This takes a lot of dedication so let me also praise @brianmorris547

[brianmorris547]

Thank you.

I have an interest in the Quarries. My Great Uncle Dan Morris first saw action there on 25/09/1915 with 2 Bn Yorkshire Regt. (21 IB/7 Div). 

Brian

[weshallremember]

just wondering about the barricade separating the captured trench from the Germans

what kind of barricade would have been put in place

and would they have to man the defence  24/7  

because of the threat of attack from the german side

seems a precarious situation be be in

trevor

[brianmorris547]

Trevor

As I wrote on 31/10 91 Field Co RE erected Chevaux de Frise. These were wooden spikes shaped like a wheel on an axle, used to plug gaps in barbed wire. I suppose they improvised and used whatever was to hand to block the gaps.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

On 26/10/2022 at 10:39, TEW said:

@brianmorris547

Over the years I have tried in vain to find 1915 maps of Neuve Chapelle and the surrounding area in WDs.

Brian, yesterday I gleaned another batch of diaries attempting to find 1914 maps of the Marne & Aisne areas. Not much luck for me there but one of the diaries had some plans/maps of Neuve Chapelle for 1915.

I'll have to back track to find them again and PM the details to you.

TEW 

TEW

I found lots of 1915 maps of Neuve Chapelle and the surrounding area in the WDs of 8 Div HQ GS and the 8 Div Infantry Brigades. I wonder why I never looked there before.

Brian