RFC identification

[charlie962]

44 minutes ago, PRC said:

Still haven't got a clue who he is

From his placing and badges he could be the adjutant, Capt John Guy Baron Lethbridge (one of those ordering a copy photo). Previously Lieut 3rd Hussars and was wounded in South Africa 1900, although I haven't found ref to how badly. 

Edit..surname became Lethbridge-Galton in 1936.

Edited 24 October , 2022 by charlie962

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

From his placing and badges he could be the adjutant, Capt John Guy Baron Lethbridge (one of those ordering a copy photo). Previously Lieut 3rd Hussars and was wounded in South Africa 1900, although I haven't found ref to how badly. 

Edit..surname became Lethbridge-Galton in 1936.

I did identify him as very likely to be the regimental Adjutant in the first photo where he appeared.  The Adjutant was always an attached regular in normal circumstances.

Edited 24 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[charlie962]

Major John Guy Baron Lethbridge was born in 1874. and followed an Army career, serving in the Boer War, where lost his right arm. 

Leamington Courier 1952, courtesy Findmypast newspapers.

Edited 24 October , 2022 by charlie962

[charlie962]

9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I did identify him as very likely

Indeed, it was your id of 3rd Hussars that I followed up on. Sorry not to have acknowledged! 

Charlie

[FROGSMILE]

17 hours ago, Heroes16 said:

Hi all been interesting reading all your research please see attached some original photos I have with some familiar faces! 

They are definitely Royal 1st Devon Yeomanry and these photos show annual training camps in the decade between the end of the 2nd Boer War and the outbreak of WW1.  The image with the marquee (probably the officers’ mess tent) is the earliest.  It shows many of the officers wearing the service dress with facing coloured collar introduced around 1906-07.

At that stage, before the Territorial Force was created in 1908, drab service dress of 1902 pattern was only universal in the regular forces and militia, with yeomanry and volunteer battalions still following their own county regulations and unit preferences.  It’s a transitional photo though, as a few officers are wearing the newer style of service dress, as favoured by the Guards and officers of general rank, who were already wearing the open collar style with white shirt and black silk tie, that didn’t become standard across the Army until 1912.  Notice also that like the Guards (and Generals) rank is on the shoulder straps rather than on the cuffs.  This is typical of the Yeomanry, who saw themselves as from a social strata a cut above many of the Army’s regular officers.

Notice that in the second photo the new uniform is worn by almost all, with no sign of the earlier jacket with its closed and faced collar.  From a uniform viewpoint these are very interesting photos that show an historical transition in progress.  As well as the faced collars (red or blue, I’m unsure which, but the former colour seems likely), note the small and perfectly plain ball shaped buttons favoured by hussars units.  These seem to have been replaced by larger leather buttons on the subsequent uniform.

I suspect that the tented camp might be at Baldock, a location that the regiment used.

William Edward Thomas Bolitho was commanding officer for some of the interim period concerned.

NB.  in its circa 1902 full dress the regiment was most unusual as light cavalry in having both, a scarlet Hussar jacket (a colour more usual for heavy cavalry), and in a short dolman style rather than the more contemporary and skirted atila style. 

Edited 25 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Towards rear right is another officer from a different regiment.  My first thought is Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry (the most senior yeomanry regiment), but unless my eyes are mistaken his collar badges appear to have title scrolls, in which case he is more likely from one of the several Welsh yeomanry regiments that favoured insignia based upon the Prince of Wales’s feathers.  A close up might help with ID.  

I assume this is the individual you are referring to with what looks like Prince of Wales feathers on his collar. Unfortunately looks like he moved just as the picture was being taken.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, PRC said:

I assume this is the individual you are referring to with what looks like Prince of Wales feathers on his collar. Unfortunately looks like he moved just as the picture was being taken.

Cheers,
Peter

Yes that’s the man Peter, thank you.  His cap badge is clearly a plain and simple PoW feathers, which would be correct for the Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry, but so then should be the collar badges.  To me they look like they have additional scrolls, but I welcome more sets of eyes to take a view?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Indeed, it was your id of 3rd Hussars that I followed up on. Sorry not to have acknowledged! 

Charlie

It’s not a problem Charlie, I was just trying to emphasise that he was the Adjutant rather than “could be”.

Hopefully it might be possible to ID the much beribboned pirate with one eye now…

Edited 24 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

22 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

  His cap badge is clearly a plain and simple PoW feathers, which would be correct for the Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry, but so then should be the collar badges.  To me they look like they have additional scrolls, but I welcome more sets of eyes to take a view?

Thought I'd check out the 1909 Officer establishment in that years Hart Annual Army List as the best way to pick up officers that might have been present at the 1908 annual camp. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100688886

Going through the officers attached from other Regiments I was reminded that the Adjutant had caused me problems before when I was looking for a 3rd (Kings Own) Hussars Officer. What I'd found in 1910 was a Captain G.H. Watson, 3rd Dragoon Guards, and checking out the 1909 list the same man is shown there as well.

On 23/10/2022 at 22:15, PRC said:

The 1910 edition of Hart’s Annual Army List shows the following officer establishment for the Royal 1st Devon,

Adjutant.

Captain G.H. Watson, 3rd Dragoon Guards, (Captain in Army 27th June 1900). Seniority 17th December 1906.

 

So odd place for him to be standing in the picture, but could those Prince of Wales feathers with a scroll be the 3rd Dragoon Guards?

Image courtesy Wikipedia.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 24 October , 2022 by PRC
Typos

[FROGSMILE]

15 hours ago, PRC said:

Thought I'd check out the 1909 Officer establishment in that years Hart Annual Army List as the best way to pick up officers that might have been present at the 1908 annual camp. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100688886

Going through the officers attached from other Regiments I was reminded that the Adjutant had caused me problems before when I was looking for a 3rd (Kings Own) Hussars Officer. What I'd found in 1910 was a Captain G.H. Watson, 3rd Dragoon Guards, and checking out the 1909 list the same man is shown there as well.

So odd place for him to be standing in the picture, but could those Prince of Wales feathers with a scroll be the 3rd Dragoon Guards?

NB.  In all other forms of dress but OSD the collar badges are plain PoW feathers without title scroll.

Image courtesy Wikipedia.

Cheers,
Peter

It’s a good thought Peter, but there were so many regiments with the PoW feathers as insignia.  Indeed I think it was the most commonly featured motif/device of them all.  Unfortunately it doesn’t ostensibly seem to tally well with the 3rd DG because both, their cap badge and their collar badges had a title scroll in service dress bronze.  Perhaps there is a title scroll on the cap badge in the photo and I just can’t quite discern it.  It is worth bearing in mind that when OSDB insignia was introduced, for simplicity sake it was decided that cap badges and collar badges would be of identical size and fixture.  However, some regiment’s badges were too unwieldy for collars and so subsequently a second pattern for them alone was reduced in size.  It seems to me likely that on a balance of probability you likely have correctly identified the officer in the photograph.

NB.  I think he is probably wearing the regiment’s coloured universal forage cap with gilt and white metal cap badge.

 

Edited 25 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE