ersatz Posted 11 October , 2022 Share Posted 11 October , 2022 I'd like to obtain the opinions of the knowledgeable German bayonet collectors here. I picked up an FA07 dated Saxon sawback made by W. K. & C. The cross guard is marked 12.P.2.160. It is my understanding that the Saxon's had only two (2) Pioneer Battalions, the 12th and 22nd. Also, from Carter's Vol. 1, W.K. & C. only made aA S bayonets for Saxony in 1907. My thinking leads me to believe that due to the very small number of Saxon Pioneer Battalions, and the single year of manufacture of aA S bayonets for Saxony, that these bayonets may be considered rare. I welcome your input and photos of similar bayonets in your collections. Thank you for looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 12 October , 2022 Share Posted 12 October , 2022 (edited) Looks like a nice scarce bayonet S98/05aAS made under Saxon contract and unit marked to 1.Saxon pioneer Batallion. About production year only based on Carter book, i would be personally carefully, he doesnt have enough data for similar conclusion. Offcoarse they fullfiled various contracts, anyway saxon part is much smaller as prussian or bavarian. In Voronov/Carter copy they are mentioned still S98/02 even 1905 dated for Saxony made by Haenel and Schilling. Edited 12 October , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 October , 2022 Share Posted 15 October , 2022 The Vorontov's book (V.V.Voronov and D.V.Voronov, German Bayonets Models Pfm 71/98, S98/02, S98/05, Moscow, 2015, Russian language only) confirms that WKC only made S98aAmS for Saxony in 1907, and for nobody else that year. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 16 October , 2022 Share Posted 16 October , 2022 (edited) Carter had not enough samples as visible in new red points in tables of various makers that was provided to Voronov copy from world wide collectors, evidently he had not too the origin contract papers of Saxony, so when majority of saxon pieces were made by Haenel and Schilling is possible that some not prior this time observed pieces could be found in timeframe 1907-10. Anyway the WKC delivery is confirmed by various pieces in that source and even by Williams for 1907. The text in Voronov is majority only russian copy of english original and only some places were corected. Still enough errors there. Edited 16 October , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 26 November , 2022 Share Posted 26 November , 2022 Dear ersatz, This is an excellent example of a very rare unit marking. Well donne!!! Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersatz Posted 26 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2022 Thank you D. for affirming my thoughts regarding the 12th SAXON! The advanced collector I obtained this example from said he has only had 2 examples during his 50+ years of collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 26 November , 2022 Share Posted 26 November , 2022 Αnd he is correct. I have seen only 4 examples after 2 1/2 decades of collecting. The most rare unit marking, with the 22th Saxon and the 13th wuttembergian. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 26 November , 2022 Share Posted 26 November , 2022 Good evening nothing to do with bayonets, here is my mutze marked with the 22nd Saxon Pioneer Battalion : Kind regards michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 27 November , 2022 Share Posted 27 November , 2022 (edited) VERY RARE saxon marked 98/02 WITH SCABBARD. IT IS MARKED WITH THE "FA" FOR THE KING OF SAXONY and date is 1905. UNIT MARK ON CROSSGUARD = R.P.I.197 RESERVE PIONEER BATAILLON FURST RADZIWILL NR. 1 [1ST OSTPREUSSISCHES] Edited 27 November , 2022 by zuluwar2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 27 November , 2022 Share Posted 27 November , 2022 very rare seen 98/05 aA sawback bayonet SAXON MARKED Friedrich August 1907 [FA 07] on the spine of the blade W & C SOLINGEN manufacturer 12.P.4.124 unit marking Kgl Sachs. 1th Pioneer Bataillon Nr. 12 an extremely rare unit marked sawback S 14 bayonet with flashguard [made after 1915], marked for the 12th Feldartillery Regiment. Manufacturer is the firm of "Samson Werke". Flashguards on S 14 bayonets are extremely rare and ONLY on sawback version of SAMSON WERKE firm, have been found unitl today [see Carter' s book, Volume II, pages 150]. This is the 1st Saxon Feldartillery Regiment, based on Dresden and Konigsbruck, started service on 26.6.1620. Saxon unit marked bayonets are extremely rare, if we consider that they covered only the 5-6% of the imperial german army on ww1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 27 November , 2022 Share Posted 27 November , 2022 a very rare and matching unit marking, for 22 Saxon Pioneer Regiment with FA 1907 marking [Fridrich - Albert, King pf Saxony]. VERY RARE SEEN matching example. a very rare saxon unit marked ersatz bayonet Unit marking for 100th (1st Royal Saxon) Life Grenadiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersatz Posted 27 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2022 18 hours ago, battle of loos said: Good evening nothing to do with bayonets, here is my mutze marked with the 22nd Saxon Pioneer Battalion : Kind regards michel Michel, You have a very nice mutze there. I'm sure you are now on the hunt for a 22nd SAXON Pioneer bayonet. Good Collecting to you, TEd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersatz Posted 27 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2022 9 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said: VERY RARE saxon marked 98/02 WITH SCABBARD. IT IS MARKED WITH THE "FA" FOR THE KING OF SAXONY and date is 1905. UNIT MARK ON CROSSGUARD = R.P.I.197 RESERVE PIONEER BATAILLON FURST RADZIWILL NR. 1 [1ST OSTPREUSSISCHES] D, Excellent examples of SAXON issue bayonets. I especially like the 98/02 and 98/05 piece marked to the 22nd. I have 4 Pioneer marked 98/02 with only 1 being Bavarian issue. I missed a Saxon not too long ago. I'll continue to be on the hunt for a Saxon '02 and 22nd marked piece. I'm sure the '02 will be easier to find over time. Good collecting to you and thanks for sharing! TED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 27 November , 2022 Share Posted 27 November , 2022 Saxon pieces are nice, little strange is the use of saxon proofed S98/02 under not saxon division in I.Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 January , 2023 Share Posted 7 January , 2023 I missed these last ones somewhow! Very nice examples, Dimitri - and Erstaz! I still await a 98/02... They never seem to have made it over to Ottoman Turkey... Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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