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Saxon Pioneer Battalion marked aA S 98/05 bayonet......


ersatz

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I'd like to obtain the opinions of the knowledgeable German bayonet collectors here.  I picked up an FA07 dated Saxon sawback made by W. K. & C.  The cross guard is marked 12.P.2.160.   It is my understanding that the Saxon's had only two (2) Pioneer Battalions, the 12th and 22nd.   Also, from Carter's Vol. 1, W.K. & C. only made aA S bayonets for Saxony in 1907. 

My thinking leads me to believe that due to the very small number of Saxon Pioneer Battalions, and the single year of manufacture of aA S bayonets for Saxony, that these bayonets may be considered rare.   I welcome your input and photos of similar bayonets in your collections.  Thank you for looking!

12Pa.JPG

12Pb.JPG

12Pc.JPG

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Looks like a nice scarce bayonet S98/05aAS made under Saxon contract and unit marked to 1.Saxon pioneer Batallion. About production year only based on Carter book, i would be personally carefully, he doesnt have enough data for similar conclusion. Offcoarse they fullfiled various contracts, anyway saxon part is much smaller as prussian or bavarian. In Voronov/Carter copy they are mentioned still S98/02 even 1905 dated for Saxony made by Haenel and Schilling.

Edited by AndyBsk
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The Vorontov's book (V.V.Voronov and D.V.Voronov, German Bayonets Models Pfm 71/98, S98/02, S98/05, Moscow, 2015, Russian language only) confirms that WKC only made S98aAmS for Saxony in 1907, and for nobody else that year.

Trajan

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Carter had not enough samples as visible in new red points in tables of various makers that was provided to Voronov copy from world wide collectors, evidently he had not too the origin contract papers of Saxony, so when majority of saxon pieces were made by Haenel and Schilling is possible that some not prior this time observed pieces could be found in timeframe 1907-10. Anyway the WKC delivery is confirmed by various pieces in that source and even by Williams for 1907. The text in Voronov is majority only russian copy of english original and only some places were corected. Still enough errors there.

Edited by AndyBsk
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  • 1 month later...

Dear ersatz,

This is an excellent example of a very rare unit marking.

Well donne!!! 

Regards

D. 

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Thank you D. for affirming my thoughts regarding the 12th SAXON!  The advanced collector I obtained this example from said he has only had 2 examples during his 50+ years of collecting.  

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Αnd he is correct. I have seen only 4 examples after 2 1/2 decades of collecting. The most rare unit marking, with the 22th Saxon and the 13th wuttembergian. 

Regards

D. 

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Good evening

nothing to do with bayonets, here is my mutze marked with the 22nd Saxon Pioneer Battalion :

465770344_artillerie-pionnier-prusse(1).JPG.fabfaaa427f18a99192af6c701185cb4.JPG

1916698628_artillerie-pionnier-prusse(3).JPG.277d1d0ec2d05f96993b7258c1bd7a03.JPG

1592170158_artillerie-pionnier-prusse(4).JPG.358856c02c81fabddd7c5862b0158a7f.JPG

76900702_artillerie-pionnier-prusse(5).JPG.054784519850edda1599a78bd3b3309d.JPG

Kind regards
michel

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VERY RARE saxon marked  98/02 WITH SCABBARD.

IT IS MARKED WITH THE "FA" FOR THE KING OF SAXONY and date is 1905.

UNIT MARK ON CROSSGUARD = R.P.I.197

RESERVE PIONEER BATAILLON FURST RADZIWILL NR. 1 [1ST OSTPREUSSISCHES]

 

475510579_20180728_1256001.jpg.59d1ba51f392634e824ff51efe9219ef.jpg

109465584_20180728_1256121.jpg.c7c3c3cc2e96f65990b686f8413f212b.jpg

80680012_20180728_1255461.jpg.cb6d169bbb89a2fc7e7f634edb392de9.jpg

679819254_20180728_1255381.jpg.bf528b0139d90ab808f919c84109f7ba.jpg

1502840030_20180728_1255561.jpg.c808432898618813448035b12a23b32b.jpg

Edited by zuluwar2006
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very rare seen 98/05 aA sawback bayonet SAXON MARKED

Friedrich August 1907 [FA 07] on the spine of the blade

W & C SOLINGEN manufacturer

12.P.4.124 unit marking

Kgl Sachs. 1th Pioneer Bataillon Nr. 12


 

1704135152_20180707_1952141.jpg.6477277075bfaa919695f9b63dce97bc.jpg

1721873650_20180707_1952061.jpg.e37d5f8fa94a331c2fc3554c277922ef.jpg

992422732_20180707_1952201.jpg.5e62abdab536cb2566a1c097ea620552.jpg

1010735422_20180707_1951591.jpg.28b0371d6428071e61dbfa43e27e381d.jpg

an extremely rare unit marked sawback S 14 bayonet with flashguard [made after 1915], marked for the 12th Feldartillery Regiment.

Manufacturer is the firm of "Samson Werke".

Flashguards on S 14 bayonets are extremely rare and ONLY on sawback version of SAMSON WERKE firm, have been found unitl today [see Carter' s book, Volume II, pages 150]. 

This is the 1st Saxon Feldartillery Regiment, based on Dresden and Konigsbruck, started service on 26.6.1620.

Saxon unit marked bayonets are extremely rare, if we consider that they covered only the 5-6% of the imperial german army on ww1. 

1093871148_S14c.jpg.98951e4b94329ec3822fa5e357075ad7 (1).jpg

71540469_S14b.jpg.32c16ef00cd4da8d95fa4f59ab6b3ef4.jpg

1630971165_S14d.jpg.542d76a8d410d12726792be4df25b310 (1).jpg

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a very rare and matching unit marking, for 22 Saxon Pioneer Regiment

with FA 1907 marking [Fridrich - Albert, King pf Saxony].

VERY RARE SEEN matching example.

463273071_20180602_1754121.jpg.765b4db76e777a8db756d1bdbc574d77.jpg

1783475943_20180602_1754401.jpg.32e4cfafa9c96003f7fc36dc54c5903d.jpg

a very rare saxon unit marked ersatz bayonet

Unit marking for 100th (1st Royal Saxon) Life Grenadiers

1850471363_20180701_1328021.jpg.4ddc7b6162300fd88644f13e955b5574.jpg

1444802832_20180701_1328311.jpg.969aa252e453f993a059d2e031eac32c.jpg

829214396_20180701_1327541.jpg.ad869d60e58acec0599596616b27bbea.jpg

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18 hours ago, battle of loos said:

Good evening

nothing to do with bayonets, here is my mutze marked with the 22nd Saxon Pioneer Battalion :

465770344_artillerie-pionnier-prusse(1).JPG.fabfaaa427f18a99192af6c701185cb4.JPG

1916698628_artillerie-pionnier-prusse(3).JPG.277d1d0ec2d05f96993b7258c1bd7a03.JPG

1592170158_artillerie-pionnier-prusse(4).JPG.358856c02c81fabddd7c5862b0158a7f.JPG

76900702_artillerie-pionnier-prusse(5).JPG.054784519850edda1599a78bd3b3309d.JPG

Kind regards
michel

Michel,

You have a very nice mutze there.  I'm sure you are now on the hunt for a 22nd SAXON Pioneer bayonet.  Good Collecting to you, TEd

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9 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said:

VERY RARE saxon marked  98/02 WITH SCABBARD.

IT IS MARKED WITH THE "FA" FOR THE KING OF SAXONY and date is 1905.

UNIT MARK ON CROSSGUARD = R.P.I.197

RESERVE PIONEER BATAILLON FURST RADZIWILL NR. 1 [1ST OSTPREUSSISCHES]

 

475510579_20180728_1256001.jpg.59d1ba51f392634e824ff51efe9219ef.jpg

109465584_20180728_1256121.jpg.c7c3c3cc2e96f65990b686f8413f212b.jpg

80680012_20180728_1255461.jpg.cb6d169bbb89a2fc7e7f634edb392de9.jpg

679819254_20180728_1255381.jpg.bf528b0139d90ab808f919c84109f7ba.jpg

1502840030_20180728_1255561.jpg.c808432898618813448035b12a23b32b.jpg

D,  

Excellent examples of SAXON issue bayonets.  I especially like the 98/02 and 98/05 piece marked to the 22nd.   I have 4 Pioneer marked 98/02 with only 1 being Bavarian issue.  I missed a Saxon not too long ago.  I'll continue to be on the hunt for a Saxon '02 and 22nd marked piece.  I'm sure the '02 will be easier to find over time.  Good collecting to you and thanks for sharing!  TED 

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Saxon pieces are nice, little strange is the use of saxon proofed S98/02 under not saxon division in I.Army.

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  • 1 month later...

I missed these last ones somewhow! Very nice examples, Dimitri - and Erstaz! I still await a 98/02... They never seem to have made it over to Ottoman Turkey...

Julian

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