Simon92 Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 Hello There I was wondering if someone could help me? I recently purchased a WW1 British war medal and I have been trying to do some research but I have hit a wall at the moment. The Medal Is WW1 BRITISH WAR MEDAL to CAPTAIN W. J. MORGAN M.C. of the SHERWOOD FORESTERS (Notts and Derby Regiment) He was awarded the Military Cross for Conspicuous Gallantry and Devotion to Duty as reported in the London Gazette on 23/7/18.Which I have found through research I've tried to find him on various sites but no luck if anybody could help that be very kind thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 4 October , 2022 Admin Share Posted 4 October , 2022 His MIC shows he was an Acting Captain, so therefore his substantive rank would I assume be Lieutenant. On that basis, this seems to be the Reference to his Officer File, which can be viewed at TNA. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roselyn2 Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 (edited) Sorry. Captain on your Medal. I Wes looking at Lieut. Lyn Edited 4 October , 2022 by roselyn2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 BWM & VM MIC also showing his MC = In theatre 1, Notts & derby, 7-7-17, 2nd Lt - later 15 Notts and Derby, Acting Capt. Reverse of MIC shows his appication for his medals and an address of 55 Cavendish Rd, Clapham Park, London SW12 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 Citation 2/8/18 via Findmypast Someone cleverer than I can find the annotated version with original date and place of action. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 (edited) I see that Lt WJ Morgan MC of the Sherwood Foresters appears as wounded in the daily casualty list published 25/6/18. (Actual wounding two or more weeks earlier) Note that he already has MC after his name. Edited 4 October , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roselyn2 Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 (edited) Is the B. W. M. named Lieut. W. J. Morgan. ?. The reason I’m asking this. There is another Lieut. W. J. Morgan. R. A. Lyn. Edited 4 October , 2022 by roselyn2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon92 Posted 4 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2022 From what I have found there is not much information as captain I have researched on ancestry and nothing comes up I haven't tried lieutenant.on the medals says Capt W J Morgan 🤔 I'm so puzzled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 Hi Simon92, It looks like he was awarded his MC for his actions on 25th March 1918 at/near Mericourt, whilst serving with the 15th Bn. The Bn war diary is here, the Brigade diary here, and the Division diary here. Images sourced from the National Archives The Army List of December 1919 indicates that he held the rank of Lieutenant wef 1st July 1917 Images sourced from the National Library of Scotland Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 1 hour ago, Simon92 said: From what I have found there is not much information as captain I have researched on ancestry and nothing comes up I haven't tried lieutenant.on the medals says Capt W J Morgan 🤔 I'm so puzzled As RussT mentioned above, his substantive rank would be Lieutenant, his medals would be impressed with the highest rank achieved, Captain (Acting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 4 October , 2022 Share Posted 4 October , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Simon92 said: From what I have found there is not much information as captain Try the London Gazette for his commssion and promotions etc e.g. Notts. & Derby. R. ... Temp. Lt. W. J. Morgan to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Co. 16 Apr. 1918. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30774/supplement/7732 Notts. & Derby. B. Temp. Lt. W. J. Morgan relinquishes th& actg. rank of Capt. on ceasing to comd. a. Co. 16 May 1918. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30805/supplement/8567 Temp. Lt. W. J. Morgan (Notts. & Derby. R. (Serv. Bns.)) to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Co., Young Soldiers' Bn., Notts-. & Derby. R. 30 Sept. 1918. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31137/supplement/1140 Temp. Lt. W. J. Morgan, M.C. (Notts. & Derby. R. (Serv. Bns.)), relinquishes the actg rank of Capt. on ceasing to comd. a Co., 53rd Young Soldiers' Bn., Notts. & Derby. R. 30 Jan. 1919. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31298/supplement/5004 Ok he ends his days as a Lieutenant Foresters. Temp. Lt. W. J. Morgan, M.C. relinquishes his commission on Completion of service 30 Jan. 1919, and retains the rank of Lt https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32251/supplement/1967 M Edited 4 October , 2022 by Matlock1418 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 Not spotting him with the Sherwood Foresters in the British Army Monthly List for July 1917, and there are lots of W. J. Morgan's to wade through to see if he might initially have served elsewhere or was commissioned into the Special Reserve,. However the September 1917 Army List shows him as a 2nd Lieutenant Attached to the Regular Army Battalions of the Regiment, and with seniority from the 25th January 1915. That should be his commissioning date. (See column 1316b, very close to the top. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/120299266 ) Even with a date I'm still not turning up anything in the London Gazette. - others may have better luck. Going back to the July 1917 list there is a Second Lieutenant W. J. Morgan with seniority from the 25th January 1915 who was recorded on the establishment of the 13th Battalion, Training Reserve. He was a temporary Lieutenant with effect from the 1st September 1916. (Column 1577L https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104024816 ) Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 7 hours ago, PRC said: However the September 1917 Army List shows him as a 2nd Lieutenant Attached to the Regular Army Battalions of the Regiment, and with seniority from the 25th January 1915. That should be his commissioning date. (See column 1316b, very close to the top. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/120299266 ) Even with a date I'm still not turning up anything in the London Gazette. - others may have better luck. Think this is likely his commissioning LG INFANTRY. The undermentioned to be temporary Second Lieutenants. ... Dated 25th January, 1915: — ... William James Morgan https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29051/supplement/885 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 If his original commission was Jan 1915 then I think this photo (from a group of officers on a recruiting drive) in the Tatler 1915 is him: Source Findmypast newspapers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 Source of prev photo via Findmypast -Tatler 8/9/15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 Simon, can you give us exactly what is written on the rim of the medal please. A couple of photos of the naming would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 The Long, Long Trail entry for the 14th Battalion, Sherwood Foresters, joins up some of the dots on what has been posted so far. 14th (Reserve) Battalion Formed at Lichfield in October 1914, as a Service battalion for K4 and came under orders of 91st Brigade, original 30th Division. 10 April 1915 : converted into a reserve battalion. Moved to Brocton Camp in March 1916. 1 September 1916 : converted into 13th Training Reserve Battalion of 3rd Reserve Brigade at Brocton. See 53rd (Young Soldier) battalion, below 53rd (Young Soldier) Battalion Up to 27 October 1917, this was known as 13th Young Soldier Battalion and had no regimental affiliation. Before that it had been 14th (Reserve) Battalion of the Sherwood Foresters. A basic recruit training unit based at Rugeley, it was part of 1st Reserve Brigade. It moved around October 1918 to Clipstone.https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/sherwood-foresters-nottinghamshire-derbyshire-regiment/ So looks like he was no longer fit for frontline service after his wounding. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 (edited) "Source of prev photo via Findmypast -Tatler 8/9/15" Same photo, less clear, appears in Sheffield Daily Telegraph of 27/8/15 and tells us the officers are route marching through the counties of Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire recruiting. With all that info above there is now a good timeline that can be drawn up. I agree that the probable date of his wounding matches the 'ceasing to command a company 16/5/18'. Charlie Edited 5 October , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 The 15th Battalion War Diary doesn't appear to have any mention of him, although it is very sparse on Officers' names generally and for most months on the version available from the National Archive between July 1917 and May 1918 there are no appendices. The diary for February 1918 is missing completely. On the 16th May 1918, the date when he ceased to be a Company Commander, there were no casualties recorded, and there were none since the start of the month. Most of that time had been spent in training, with the Battalion providing working parties in the Forward area to assist the Royal Engineers since the 11th. So possibly he was attached elsewhere. Would be good to tie down the date of the actions he was awarded the Military Cross for and see how that ties back into the War Diary entries. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, PRC said: Would be good to tie down the date of the actions he was awarded the Military Cross for and see how that ties back into the War Diary entries. 25/3/18 Méricourt per that annotated citation posted by Chris. Edited 5 October , 2022 by charlie962 Not annoyed but annotated !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon92 Posted 5 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2022 Hello Charlie This is what it says on the British war medal I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 5 October , 2022 Share Posted 5 October , 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, charlie962 said: 25/3/18 Méricourt per that annotated citation posted by Chris. Oops - in all the going back and forth through the thread I lost that one. Could do with a good summary War Diary certainly shows the Battalion in action on the 25th. Other than location, details aren't specific enough to rule in or out Captain Morgan as earning his M.C. with them on that day. Image courtesy The National Archive. Cheers, Peter Edited 5 October , 2022 by PRC Reference location Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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