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Remembered Today:

Service of Mechant Navy seaman who was awarded CBE


PaulJC

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Hello,

I am trying to piece together the merchant navy service of George Roger Thompson. He was born in 1859 in Brigg, Lincolnshire and served in the merchant navy until well after the First World War. He was awarded an OBE in 1919 and a CBE in 1920 for services whilst acting as chief engineer. I know that he served on the SS Toronto that sailed out of Hull to North America as I have a copy of his identity card. I would like to know when he joined the merchant service and details of any other ships etc that he sailed on.

Thanks,

Paul

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The 1915 Crew Lists show that he did five voyages on Toronto at that time.

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Thanks,

Yes, I saw that. Born in 1859 I am guessing he had a long career in the merchant navy even before 1914. I would like to try and find out something about that time and when he retired.

Also I have failed to find a ohoto of the SS Toronto. 

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Perhaps some link to this Findmypast newspapers: 

chrome_screenshot_1663515134197.png.b66f147c3065dded9e46e1131a61f2d7.png

Thompson isn't named but he would have had a part in safe manoeuvre. He was also a Hull man. 

Smith and Kirk were recognised 1920.. 

chrome_screenshot_1663515556237.png.1d58f704e746e75fce316a08dc93154b.png

Edited by charlie962
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Thanks for this.

I wasn't aware of the rescue mission so this is interesting. Like you, I also thought he must have done something special to be awarded an OBE in 1919 and a CBE just a year later. Its quite unusual to have such awards so close together.

 

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He's on a 1917 crew list for SSToronto arriving New York from Hill via Plymouth, Dec 1917. List includes Walter Henry Smith as Master and George Allan Kirk as 1stMate. 

Ditto same bunch arrival NewYork from Antwerp Aug 1920. 

Source Ancestry Passenger and Crew Lists

Edited by charlie962
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Just a thought. Could they have carried some important passengers on a particular voyage or was it long service that got him OBE, in turn upgraded due to rescue to CBE?

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Thanks again for this.

I searched and found a little more about this rescue but Thompson's name is not included. He may have been on the ship but didnt play a big part. My thoughts are that he would have recieved a maritime gallantry award (like the others did) rather than an CBE. Typically, such awards are given for excellent long service. 

It would be interesting to know who nominated him for the award(s) although there were many mercantile sailors recognised at that time. Interestingly, Thompson would have been 60 in 1919 so it could be a recognition of this service. 

 

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Thanks for the photos. she was scrapped in 1923. By then George would have been 64 and coming upto retirement. I have no details of when he joined the merchant navy or his early service.

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Paul

You might find out more information on G R Thompson by obtaining a copy of his Certificate of Competency as 1st Class Engineer from the National Archives at Kew.  These are not available online but his Certificate number of IC 19729 is in BT 139/12 and you can ask for a copy from Kew if you cannot get there yourself.  You may also find his previous CoC as 2nd Class Engineer

Amongst the paperwork will be a List of Testimonials and Statement of Sea Service on which he will have written the names and voyages of the ships on which he served to obtain the requisite sea time in order to sit his various Certificate examinations under the auspices of the Board of Trade.  This will not be a complete list of the ships on which he served throughout his career as once he obtained his CoC the ships will only appear in his discharge papers or book unless he kept a personal diary.

I cannot find a medal card for him but the gazette entry for 7 Jan 1919 would imply the OBE being a New Year's Honours award which might well be for long and faithful service rather than any particular event.

Tony

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Thanks Tony,

I will follow this up.

I am pretty sure his OBE/CBE are for long service rather than specific events.

I also cannot find a medal card for him but others have said that the mercantile had to apply and perhaps he never bothered.

Paul

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Do Hull libraries have any archive for the Wilson Line? Presumably his name would be put forward by the shipping line.

I agree that OBE is probably recognition of long service but that almost immediate upgrade to CBE still has me thinking it was for a particular event. Although he isn't quoted for bravery, he may have played a useful part in that rescue? One of the press clippings I saw did mention the presence at a ceremony for the boat crew of a Mrs Thompson, representing her absent husband. (Edit- but see later post that clarifies it is Mrs Thomson, wife of AB N Thomson ie different man)

Do please keep us posted if you find useful stuff in his certificates.

Edited by charlie962
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Hi Paul

findmypast have a CR2 card for a G R Thompson aged 60 from New Holland, 1st engineer

Discharge number appears to be 760521

two voyage starts are given, both for ship official number 113569 (Toronto)

They are 27 Jan 1921 and 11 Feb 1922

Does this match your info?

You mentioned that you have a copy of his identity card.

Is this the one from the 1918-21 period marked "R.S.2.  Identity and Service Certificate" which can  include a passport style photo?

if it is then there may be details of these voyages there.

There should also be an RS2 number and a discharge A number which should match the number on the CR2 card.

best wishes

ernestjames

 

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His OBE would (most probably) have been awarded for individual meritorious service in the mercantile marine (working for Ellerman-Wilson Line) during the war years (its not a long service award), however to have it upgraded to a CBE only a year later suggests to me that he may also have been contributing time and effort towards some sort of maritime trade body or marine engineering organisation (such as the Institute of Marine Engineers or some such).

MB

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.....in addition to my earlier post I meant to add that there are a number of Official Logbooks for the TORONTO 113569 covering much of the war years under the following file numbers.

BT 165 / 1629,  BT 165/1921, BT 165/765, BT 165/ 1413 , BT 165/1797, BT 165/1118.

Whilst Official Logbooks do not contain entries concerning the day to day running of the ship, they would certainly contain details of events out of the ordinary requiring notification to the BOT, the rescue previously mentioned would be included in an OLB.  The OLB would also contain crew lists and records of ports visited with dates and a freeboard sheet, records of births, deaths, accidents, fire and boat drills and apprentices, and loggings and fines for crew misdemeanors

If the OBE was awarded for meritorious service in a particular incident, as has been suggested, then the incident would almost certainly be recorded in the OLB.

Again, a visit to Kew would be needed to view all these.

Tony 

Edited by MerchantOldSalt
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Thanks All.

I have a copy of the CR2 card but not an identity card so no photo.

It seems that there is plenty of scope for futher information on this man but it will need a visit or at least application to the NA.

the idea that he was awarded a CBE a year after his OBE does raise a number of interesting questions especially as these are definitely not gallantery related awards.

Paul

 

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Sorry, but in my earlier post I was suggesting cumulative meritorious service over the entirety of the war years (i.e. not a gallantry award made in recognition of actions relating to one particular event).  I was attempting to make a differentiation here from the notion of this simply being a long service award (which are usually granted for so many years qualifying service in a particular branch of one of the armed forces).

MB

Edited by KizmeRD
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2 hours ago, KizmeRD said:

Sorry, but in my earlier post I was suggesting cumulative meritorious service over the entirety of the war years (i.e. not a gallantry award made in recognition of actions relating to one particular event).  I was attempting to make a differentiation here from the notion of this simply being a long service award (which are usually granted for so many years qualifying service in a particular branch of one of the armed forces).

MB

And I agree with what you suggest. Perhaps we will never get to the bottom of why an OBE became a CBE only 12 months later but its certainly an interesting journey.

Paul

Edited by PaulJC
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16 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Do Hull libraries have any archive for the Wilson Line? Presumably his name would be put forward by the shipping line.

I agree that OBE is probably recognition of long service but that almost immediate upgrade to CBE still has me thinking it was for a particular event. Although he isn't quoted for bravery, he may have played a useful part in that rescue? One of the press clippings I saw did mention the presence at a ceremony for the boat crew of a Mrs Thompson, representing her absent husband. 

Do please keep us posted if you find useful stuff in his certificates.

Do you recall the press clipping that mentioned his wife? I have access to FMP and cannot find it.

Paul

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Daily Mail 11/8/20. This was not the clipping I saw but it has more detail and suggests it was actually the wife of an AB, N. Thomson (not Thompson) (who was part of the boat crew). So I got it wrong! Good job you made me search.

chrome_screenshot_1663750541756.png.891c26f94b68c5cff50a9cc3c9947919.png

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Thanks for this but I dont think its the same man. 

It refers to "AB's Thomsen and Snepvenger" so the spelling is different and I guess AB is a  rank/job. The Thomsen spelling is repeated again later in the article.

Paul

 

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