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Remembered Today:

P1907 Bayonet markings


tankengine888
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Hello!

I was given this just now as a present.. and I cannot figure out the markings, this is my first bayonet so I'll be glad for any help! I do know DP means Drill Purpose I believe!

16633972104732012066824066932030.jpg.0a52305ce7c75179483fb0c733aa9c2a.jpg

16633972636004550734216937209358.jpg.46a0be978a4fd56d1950d714eb2f10f3.jpg16633972955417292892583009769830.jpg.cf15ae33c5e8d932248e3f11c871b8b8.jpg

Tank.

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Wilkinson most real production, date could 23 but this could be already a refurbishment date, i assume DP is Drill Purpose piece.

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1 hour ago, AndyBsk said:

Wilkinson most real production, date could 23 but this could be already a refurbishment date, i assume DP is Drill Purpose piece.

Thanks for the possible refurbishment date! Anything helps really!

Tank.

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It would be interesting to see an overall view of this bayonet as I am thinking it has seen some Indian usage. The 1** designation on the ricasso should indicate a WW2 modification has been made with the addition of a 'false edge' to the upper point of the bayonet, which was for improved penetration. This was done in India around 1941 so would help confirm where it ended up. Obviously originally made in Britain during WW1 by Wilkinson going by the markings.

Cheers, SS

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1 minute ago, shippingsteel said:

It would be interesting to see an overall view of this bayonet as I am thinking it has seen some Indian usage. The 1** designation on the ricasso should indicate a WW2 modification has been made with the addition of a 'false edge' to the upper point of the bayonet, which was for improved penetration. This was done in India around 1941 so would help confirm where it ended up. Obviously originally made in Britain during WW1 by Wilkinson going by the markings.

Cheers, SS

Definitely correct on the false edge I believe.image.jpg.8d5a411d1d72de2fa0c377989a556582.jpg

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So that confirms it is an Indian modified P1907 with the blade shortening and addition of the false edge making it an Indian designated No.1 Mk.I** bayonet.

Cheers, SS

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Yes SS is right a indian shortage, the attached scabbard is full lenght piece so not proper probably .

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A picture containing most of the Indian variants and quick listing of the nomenclature can be found in THIS POST

Chris

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Thank you very much for all this information! I'm going away for 6 days so I won't be able to say much else.

It surprised me initially with the Indian use.

Tank.

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Can I add to this conversation please and ask for some assistance? My FIL has just given me a P1907 hooked quillin sword bayonet. Quick search appears to show wooden handles but this one is brass. There is a serial number on the guard and some markings which I need to clean up. 

Anyone any thoughts? Anyone know a site I can track down the serial number please? Thanks in advance

20220921_130753.jpg

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I think I might have found some more info as the spine of the blade is engraved with a name and the date 1871. So might actually be French. 

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18 minutes ago, James Buzz said:

Can I add to this conversation please and ask for some assistance? My FIL has just given me a P1907 hooked quillin sword bayonet. Quick search appears to show wooden handles but this one is brass. There is a serial number on the guard and some markings which I need to clean up. 

Anyone any thoughts? Anyone know a site I can track down the serial number please? Thanks in advance

 

I believe your bayonet is for the French Chassepot. A forum search should bring up plenty of information. 

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You should provide the serial number prefix, or better picture of left crossguard, the piece has lost his first handle rivets, so is possible the piece was repaired in time.

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On 17/09/2022 at 11:02, AndyBsk said:

Yes SS is right a indian shortage, the attached scabbard is full lenght piece so not proper probably .


 

Here is an example of an almost-full-length scabbard (~1” shorter) with unique Indian frog stud & rack-number-matched to a 1945 OA MkI** bayonet.  
 

 

F6C264D9-C4F3-4994-BBFF-2E94360656ED.jpeg

7961FC6E-38D6-412D-B583-CA12D620E999.jpeg

Edited by DisasterDog
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2 hours ago, DisasterDog said:


 

Here is an example of an almost-full-length scabbard (~1” shorter) with unique Indian frog stud & rack-number-matched to a 1945 OA MkI** bayonet.  
 

 

F6C264D9-C4F3-4994-BBFF-2E94360656ED.jpeg

7961FC6E-38D6-412D-B583-CA12D620E999.jpeg

That's interesting - I have seen those previously but never managed to get one for my Indian collection.

Quite a few Indian used Lithgow rifles (many DP'd) appeared on the market in the US some years ago - leading me to suspect that India bought up a lot of surplus Australian rifles sometime in the post WWII period. Thanks for posting.

Chris

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Excuse me for asking.. on the scabbard, there's a circular thing pictured below
image.png.486bb2a0f20e59b823478133cf05ec57.png
I have that on my one aswell.. what is it for might I ask?

Oh yeah, thanks for all the information!

Tank.

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2 hours ago, tankengine888 said:

Excuse me for asking.. on the scabbard, there's a circular thing pictured below
image.png.486bb2a0f20e59b823478133cf05ec57.png
I have that on my one aswell.. what is it for might I ask?

Oh yeah, thanks for all the information!

Tank.

It’s to keep the scabbard in place in the webbing frog - there is 2 pieces of webbing (or leather) and this goes between them, much like a button

81177FB2-9597-43A9-A7D7-EFF65B1B4D58.jpeg.37b452028422fe65c3187116b70cf090.jpeg
 

6C1A13FE-FDDD-4169-A2BE-8317A4B7C222.jpeg.2bdd40174dc6c68cbbaef384f56471ea.jpeg

Edited by MrEd
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With regards to the Lithgows supplied to India, I believe it was in the late 1950s and early 1960s that Australia gave India SMLEs. Upon the L1A1 entering Australian service and the end of the National Service Scheme in 1959, many SMLEs were offloaded into the civilian world, other countries who wanted them and into the deep dark depths of storage by the Australian military.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 17/09/2022 at 12:55, shippingsteel said:

... Obviously originally made in Britain during WW1 by Wilkinson going by the markings.

Looks to be a WILKINSON / PALL MALL, so production date is 1916/17-1918.

Trajan

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