W3348 Combat Report - Authenticity?

[GMB]

Do any members have a W3348 Combat Air Report in their collection & could offer some help please?

I have seen a number come onto the market in recent weeks at multiple auction houses (big and one or two smaller ones). As always, authenticity and provenance are key, but keen to look for any tell tale signs of fakes etc, as I hadn't even seen one until very recently.

I took a punt on one today as a spur of a moment decision - to Lieut L.E Taplin (DFC), 4 Sqn AFC. 

Cheers

[adrian 1008]

I ve not seen a report like this before, couple of observations

4th Sqn AFC ? Should that read RFC

Dated 3rd August 1919 ?

Just a thought

[ForeignGong]

That is 4th Sqn Australian Flying Corps.

Lieutenant Leonard Thomas Eaton Taplin

[topgun1918]

The 4 Squadron AFC War Diary contains a copy of the same combat report for 3 August 1918.  Looks like the real thing to me. 

Graeme

 

[quemerford]

I've seen a good number of these over the years at the National Archives and I'd say it's genuine. However, since there has also been a well-known theft of similar articles from the Public Record Office (as was), I'd wonder at the origin of these items?

[charlie962]

Depressing. Remember this thread for example..

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/277200-war-diary-thefts-in-the-1990s/#comment-2827200

[quemerford]

Indeed. There are many WW1 records at TNA with inserts explaining that some items may be missing or in the wrong order due to said miscreant. 

[Airshipped]

Whatever about the theft of records and the loss of precious archival material to the public there was another aftershock in the attempt to reconstitute the records. (If I recall correctly, some of the thieving also involved scrambling the order of records as a means of concealing the theft). As quemerford alludes, there are numerous files with a disclaimer to the effect that records x, y, or z cannot be retrieved.

One effect was a rummage around squadron, wing and brigade records. In the circumstances some of the reconstituted files contain duplicate items.

Here's a potential example from AIR 1/1219/204/5/2634.

The first example is the handwritten version - now numbered page 23 in the revised file:

The second example is the typewritten version - now numbered page 23 in the revised file. (The handwritten 'F30' might indicate an earlier classification system).

Both images TNA copyright from the aforementioned file.

I personally wouldn't purchase a combat report, for fear of encouraging theft. However, I can quite appreciate that many collectors acquired duplicate items legitimately, and that the presence of a combat report for sale in the open market doesn't necessarily equate to evidence of theft or looting. 

If I recall correctly I've seen IWM files with combat reports, i.e. not everything was necessarily at Kew.

[hmsk212]

• Quote (Airshipped)

I personally wouldn't purchase a combat report, for fear of encouraging theft. However, I can quite appreciate that many collectors acquired duplicate items legitimately, and that the presence of a combat report for sale in the open market doesn't necessarily equate to evidence of theft or looting. 

If I recall correctly I've seen IWM files with combat reports, i.e. not everything was necessarily at Kew.

 

As I stated in the previous thread mentioned by charlie962, not all Combat Reports are dodgy, I have several that were included with original paperwork from the pilot / observer. The same way that some pilots / observers kept pieces from aircraft they shot down they also kept copies of their Combat Reports, quite often framing them for display as they were, quite rightly, proud of their achievement.

Steve

[GMB]

I have to be honest, I was not aware of the said theft in the 90s and reading the link above, what a depressing thing for someone to do.

The Combat Report came in a frame which has not been disturbed for a very very long time, which includes what seems to be a German phrase booklet, an original photo of Ypres and what is badged as 'Order of the Day by General Von Below, Commanding 2nd Army' - which I personally believe looks like a Repro. Of course there is no telling when these were added, but judging by the condition and age of the frame, I would hazard a well educated guess that this has been framed for much much longer than the 90s.

Was there a list ever produced of the missing docs?

Edited 22 September , 2022 by GMB

[quemerford]

I'm not sure that there is a full understanding of what went missing. I suspect that some of it comes under 'unknown unknowns' and it's really awful to imagine that some of these artefacts of our collective aviation heritage will be lost to public view forever.