Photos of navy personnel

[Anzio44]

Hi

My great Uncle Edwin Jenkins served on HMS Bramble in WW1 and died of Spanish flu in Oct 1918 and is buried in Basra Iraq at the Basra War Cemetery there

He is also commemorated on the Portsmouth war memorial by the cathedral as he was born and raised in Portsmouth 

i have attached two photos that I have been assured are of him. His name are on the rear of the photos

I am told he is on the left of the 3 in the first photo

and he is on the right on the second

I believe  he was a shipwright 1st class, does his uniform, rank marking etc shown confirm this?

Was a shipwright 1st class senior in rank?

Did HMS Bramble (a gunboat I believe) see any action in WW1?

Thank you for any assistance 

 

 

 

 

[Anzio44]

Sorry…. Meant to say that his brother I believe is to the left on photo 2

Can anyone identify his rank/trade please 

thanks 

[seaJane]

The man on the left in the second photo (wearing tropics) has a shipwright's badge on his right arm ("chippy" says my ex+RNR other half).

Can't make out anything else I'm afraid.

[Talesofaseadog]

This is a link to some of HMS Brambles WW1 history.

https://www.liverpoolmedals.com/product/good-shooting-1908-hms-berwick-sunk-hms-tiger

Tony

[PRC]

Just to be clear - these are the two you believe are of the same man?

From what little I've picked up on the navy side over the years from reading the forum, I thought the three stripes on the upper left arm of the man in the second picture represented good conduct awards and were only worn below the artificer and petty officer ranks - I don't know where shipwrights fitted in to that.

Three stripes represents 13 years unblemished service.

As 343858 Edwin George Jenkins enlisted as a Boy Sailor in January 1905, if the time before he reached 18 counted, then he would have done his 13 years prior to his death in 1918 and would also narrow down the period when the picture could have been taken - particularly as his brother in the same picture has 1 conduct stripe representing three years unblemished service.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/510237/e-g-jenkins/

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6781000

Got to admit I'm a bit out of my depth with the ranks and badges of the Navy so hopefully those more experienced will come in and tell me if any of that is correct so that I can know better for next time

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 10 September , 2022 by PRC
Typos

[KizmeRD]

A shipwright 1st class was equivalent to a Petty Officer (army equivalent to a Sergeant).

MB

[Anzio44]

Thank you for all this information and assistance

History of the ship as far as I can find out is interesting. Leading up to his death in October there was clearly a significant Spanish flu outbreak on the ship with several deaths and at one point 65 personnel sick

not sure what percentage of the crew that was but there were obviously significantly impacted 

[Talesofaseadog]

1 hour ago, KizmeRD said:

A shipwright 1st class was equivalent to a Petty Officer (army equivalent to a Sergeant).

MB

In my time in the RN a Petty Officer would have the three stripes on his arm, and wear a similar white coat with gold buttons down the front as part of his Tropical Rig.

I guess it would be similar in WW1.

Tony

[RNCVR]

I dont know if this will assist you Anzio in ID'ing the men but I can interpret for you their uniform insiginia -

The rating on the left, wearing seaman's uniform, his rate is likely "other artisans" in the timeframe (1WW) we are speaking of.  ie: Cooper, Blacksmith, Plumber etc. He appears to have a single anchor above his single GCB.

Shipwrights had a star above the crossed axe/hammer logo.

The PO on the right is wearing 3 GCB's (Good Conduct badges) representing 13 yrs adult (ie: above age 18) service, & crossed anchors surmounted by a crown above. Its pretty faint but I expect its there.

I dont see any rate badge on his right sleeve so he could be any rating.

[horatio2]

4 hours ago, PRC said:

As 343858 Edwin George Jenkins enlisted as a Boy Sailor in January 1905

He enlisted as a Boy Shipwright on 9 July 1900, aged 14. He was advanced to Shipwright on 11 January 1905, just before his 19th birthday, having trained in Portsmouth Dockyard for nearly five years. His 12-year engagement 'time' started on his 18th birthday 18 January 1904, even though he was still rated as a Boy. However, his 'time' for his first GCB did not start on the same date, as might be expected, but not until he was advanced from Boy to Shipwright one year later.

The reason - KR&AI 1913 states that for GCBs: "The whole of a man's service in the Royal Navy may be counted as qualifying service, with the following exceptions:   Time served in the rating of Boy of any class ... "

[PRC]

13 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

He enlisted as a Boy Shipwright on 9 July 1900, aged 14.

That will learn me not to work from the preview version on the National Archive website

So while we can't be definate that the man in the second picture is Edwins Jenkins, is it fair to say that according to the information on his record this is how his uniform and badges would have looked between the 11th January 1918 and the 28th October 1918 when he died?

And in the first picture it may be a trick of the light, but it looks like there might be one upward pointing chevron on his upper left arm. Any idea what thay may represent?

Cheers,
Peter