Medal of the Order of St. Stanislas

[gouldcx]

Hi all,

 

Wondering if the following is real or how to tell?

Its a Medal of the Order of St. Stanislas, damaged.

What is the background on these medals?

[RNCVR]

It's got some central enamel damage buts it is a good medal.

[gouldcx]

Do you think its a miniature or real one? The size is approx. 39x39. Anything I see on miniatures of these seem smaller than that but the originals seem larger. 

[RNCVR]

It appears to be full size to me.  Its beautiful craftsmanship, typical of Imperial Russian decorations. It also has the correct hallmarking of a full size decoration. 

The pre 1917 Russian decorations were gold, as this example is.  The miniature would not be of such quality manufacture.

[gouldcx]

Thanks for the insight. 

Here are more pictures of it.

[RNCVR]

Thanks for the additional photos gouldcx,  you can see the various hallmarks on the reverse & on the ring suspension, these are all as they should be.  Its deffo a pre 1917 decoration, likely a Keibel(?) manufacture

Its really unfortunate the central enamel damage, how this occurred is really hard to say.  But it mars a really beautiful decoration & will reduce its value somewhat.

 

I will attach a couple of photos of a Royal Navy Officers grouping, he was awarded the Order of St Stanislaus, 3rd class, for the battle of Jutland. Unfortunately I dont have any close up photos of the hallmarks on the decoration. & cannot take any as I have sold this group.

[RNCVR]

PS - my example is the Military (with swords), yours would be the Civil decoration. I expect it might be a 3rd class order as well.

[gouldcx]

Thanks for the info and photos, they are a great help. What sort of value do you think it would be worth, ballpark ofcourse?

[gouldcx]

Your grouping of photos was a beautiful collection

[RNCVR]

I will PM you with my email address.

[CheshireSandy]

I too am seeking information on this type of medal, in connection with my grandfather, who was apparently awarded the order of St Stanislaus in 1919 after serving in RAMC in Murmansk, as part of Operation Syren. He does not seem to have been given the actual medal, perhaps just the ribbon, and of course there are no records existing that were kept by the White Russians who gave it to him.

There is an authoritative book by Ray Brough (1991) called "White Russian Awards", which includes many records transcribed from a so-called "Confidential List" (1921), available to view at Kew in the National Archives but not digitised. I have checked that book and his name is not recorded in it. However, that does not necessarily mean it is not in the Confidential List. My grandfather's MSM for service in Murmansk was listed in the London Gazette in 1920 but there is no mention of the Russian award - I believe almost none of the Order of St Stanislaus medals/ awards were listed in the Gazette.

Any help much appreciated - perhaps someone has the additional records from Kew - it would be within WO 388/4/5 .....

Edited 21 January , 2023 by CheshireSandy

[Keith_history_buff]

Glad to see you took the advice of posting on here.

I cannot add much to this, other than to say there has been a similar thread, in relation to a soldier awarded a Russian ribbon during the intervention in the Russian civil war. Hope it makes for an interesting read.

 

Best of luck with your ongoing research.
Keith

 

[CheshireSandy]

Thank you for the link to the other post - I will check it through. I think I am reconciled to the idea of never finding an actual medal but would love to see some official mention of his award to confirm the family history story. I think it is true that he was given it, especially as he definitely had the MSM and was mentioned in dispatches, but I am coming round to the idea that he was one of many soldiers in Russia who only got the ribbon.

 

[ForeignGong]

Can we have a name etc please

[Keith_history_buff]

31067 Sgt Maj George Lewington of the RAMC.

[ForeignGong]

Hi

Your grandfather as an Other Rank would not have been given the Order above. He would have received a Russian Medal of Zeal with a St Stanislaus ribbon. See below. The order was an Officers only award.

I have a transcript of the Confidential List which is under File: WO 32/5411  Decorations & medals: Regulations governing acceptance & wearing of Russian decorations    1918-29

He is not listed but this does not mean he was not awarded the medal as at the time Russia was in turmoil and I have read quite a few accounts of Offrs and ORs only receiving the ribbon not the medal. 

If you do find a source that mentions him, could you let me know so I can add him to my database.

 

Peter

[Mikhail]

On 08/09/2022 at 14:41, gouldcx said:

Thanks for the insight. 

Here are more pictures of it.

Judging by the size, this is the Order of St. Stanislaus, 3rd class. Judging by the "IK" stamp, the order was made by Julius Keibel (1862-1881). Gold 56 hallmark .