"C" prefix - King's Royal Rifle Corps

[brianmorris547]

From the Bolton Journal 01/01/1915 showing the recruits to the KRRC that week.

James Hillidge R/8385 is on this 1917 list. He, Robert Mather 8434 / Labour Corps 544689 and Thos Barrett R/8415 have papers. Thos was discharged in January 1915 not likely etc.

EDIT I also found two casualty lists H 4462 and HB 850 which I have posted on Casualty Lists. HB 850 has four names from 16 KRR.

Brian

Edited 4 October , 2022 by brianmorris547
additional info

[brianmorris547]

From the Bolton Journal 08/01/1915 showing the recruits to the KRRC that week.

George Crow from Newcastle has papers. He is also named on two 1915 Casualty Lists H 880 (p 71) and H 4229 (p 74) on the main thread.

Edward Halliwell has papers which show that he enlisted directly in 16 C.L.B.Bn on 05/01/1915 at Bolton. His number was C.1164. There must have been an option to those enlisting into the KRRC to see if they wanted to join the C.L.B. Bn.

I also found these 1917 Part 2 Orders.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

From the Bolton Journal 15/01/1915. Thirteen recruits to the KRRC and one to the Rifle Brigade that week. No 16 Bn men as far as I could see, all the ones I found had R/ prefix numbers. Thomas Monk R/9173, later Labour Corps 514296 is named on Casualty List HA 5410 posted on the main thread by Andy in 2008 (p 5). 

I also found some more Part 2 Orders for 1916 which may be of interest. There are some 16 Bn men named on it. EDIT My mistake they are 16 Bn Rifle Brigade.

Edited 6 October , 2022 by brianmorris547
additional info

[brianmorris547]

From the Bolton Journal 22/01/1915 naming eleven recruits to the KRRC that week. No C.L.B. but two MMs.

R/9278 John Horrocks - 13 Bn LG 30962 21/10/1918 (Bolton)

R/9311 Frank Massey - 12 Bn LG 30585 19/03/1918 (Breightmet), which is an area of Bolton.

I also found this 1917 Casualty List for 17 Bn KRRC which might be of interest.

[brianmorris547]

From the Bolton Journal 29/01/1915. Only two recruits to the KRRC that week. Wm Grundy is possibly R/9654. Wm Marchment 9686 has papers. He was discharged on 20/04/1916 but later joined the RE.

I will continue to go through Rally to the Flag up to November 1915 when it stopped. I am hoping to find some info about the C.L.B. Bn. Bolton Library is outhoused at the moment and the index books have not made the journey. The Historian also can not access his database.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

Only nine recruits to the KRRC in Bolton for February 1915. They did not fare very well. Four were killed and two were POWs.

Bolton Journal 05/02

John Downs, 11 German St - R/9952 SDGW 15/09/1916 9 Bn

Joseph Isherwood, 7 Norton St - R/9953 POW 1918 7 Bn

Edward Worrall, 1 Hulme St, Eagley - R/9951 SDGW 05/12/1917 8 Bn

BJ 12/02

Stanley Nuttall, 361 Lever St - R/10438 SDGW 29/11/1915 7 Bn - WO 363

Harry Sellers, 6 Richelieu St - R/10440 POW 1917 1 Bn

Robt Varley, 26 Philip St - R/10439 4 Bn

Henry Walker, 39 McKean St - R/10437 9 Bn

BJ 19/07

Norman P Kirkman, 21 Sunlight Rd - R/10615 - WO 364

George W-------ton, 188 D------- Rd, Bromley Cross. Believed to be George Warburton, R/10599 - SDGW 30/07/1915 9 Bn

No recruits to the KRRC in the BJ 26/02 but a lot of competition because Bolton's local TF Bn 5 LNL began recruiting that week.

No reports in February about the CLB Bn. 

[brianmorris547]

Only five recruits to the KRRC and Rifle Brigade named in the Bolton Journals of March 1915.

KRRC

Brannan, Thos Henry 124 Lever St - R/10957 SDGW 07/10/1916 10 Bn

Eatough, Herbert 28 Alton St 

Wood, James 76 Ashworth Lane Astley Bridge

RB

James, William 76 King St Farnworth

Mallen, Thos King St Farnworth

[conijoni]

There was an initial recruitment of about 1,100 men into the 16th KRRC. The January 1915 Brigade magazine contains the full listing with Rfn G E Buck as C/1118. 

The August 1915 Brigade has a photo of a Reserve Company of 150+ men. 

The Brigade magazine encouraged others to request to be assigned to the CLB Battalion.

A 19th Bn, a Training Bn, also contained former CLB men.

It is believed that as many as 250,000 former CLB members fought in the Great War. 20,000 were killed, and as many again were wounded.

Twenty one Victoria Crosses were awarded to ex CLB members.

Fighter Pilot Edward 'Mick' Mannock is probably our most famous VC recipient. He was in the CLB in Canterbury.

[brianmorris547]

Thanks for that.

I am just listing the recruits from Bolton up to November 1915 as it might be of interest to Mark and Andy and also to see if there are any features in the 1915 Bolton papers about the CLB Bn.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

Bolton Journal 01/04/1915. Eleven recruits to the KRRC. None to the Rifle Brigade.

Arthur Bone R/11240 is named in these Daily Orders for 16 Bn KRRC. (In the Service Record of Wilfred Negus Parish - Ancestry Filmstrip Par 123623).

Samuel Fairhurst R/11241 and George Tustin R/11344 have papers in WO 364. Both were discharged under para 392 in 1915.

William Greenhalgh R/11261 - SDGW 03/05/1917 8 Bn.

[brianmorris547]

From the Bolton Journal 09/04/1915 naming eight recruits to the KRRC and none to the Rifle Brigade. Two the recruits however served in the Rifle Brigade and not the KRR.

Owen T Kelly was 9393 2 Bn and 13 Bn Rifle Brigade later 27655 Wiltshire Regt.

James A Travis was 9392 Rifle Brigade. He has papers in WO 363 and was posted Missing with 7 Bn RB on 30/07/1915. His death was presumed on or after that date.

Robert Baldwin R/11394 also has papers in WO 363. He was also posted Missing on 30/07/1915 with 7 Bn KRR. His death was presumed on or after that date.

Edward Grimshaw R/11360 was discharged under para 392 in 1917. Papers in WO 364.

Arthur Hodson 12417 has a hospital admission in December 1915 at 28 GH Salonika. It shows 3 Bn KRR, 9 months service, 7 months with Field Force.

William Knowles R/11939 was k in a 06/05/1916 1 Bn KRR. Papers in WO 363.

Benjamin Edward Pearson R/11359 18 Bn KRR.

Richard Walls R/11395 7 Bn KRR.

Edited 26 October , 2022 by brianmorris547

[brianmorris547]

Bolton Journal 16/04/1915. Three Recruits.

Walter Chick - 1 Bn KRR 11713 later Labour Corps 565205.

James Cocker - 7 Bn KRR R/11716 SDGW 26/09/1916.

Walter Lofthouse  - WO 364 R/11714 Enlisted 14/04/1915 examined by MO 26/04/1915 Chronic Rheumatic Arthritis Discharged para 392 30/04/1915.

[brianmorris547]

Bolton Journal 23/04/1915. Six recruits to the KRRC.

Alfred Atkinson - 7 Bn 12033 later Middlesex Regt.

Stanley Carsdale - No trace.

Albert Pollitt - 11909 later Machine Gun Corps.

Herbert Tonge - 7 & 2 Bns R/12160.

Walter Turner - 7 Bn R/11908.

Harold Whittaker - 8, 10 & 18 Bns R/12159.

[Ivor Anderson]

Quite a lot of 17th Bn. KRRC had C prefix: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_636897_11099-00113?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=b85adbbc9fa5b90b26d04b0e04d6f746&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF3430&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=2022447

[brianmorris547]

Ivor

I'm continuing with Rally to the Flag up to November 1915 as it should be of interest to Mark and Andy. I am hoping to find an article about the CLB Bn.

I have a photograph of a great Uncle in the Uniform of the Rifle Brigade. He later transferred to the Labour Corps. I did look in RTF under Rifle Brigade but could not find him. Perhaps he is listed under KRRC.

Anyway, the Bolton Journal 30/04/1915 names two recruits to the KRRC.

I think Paul Morris is 10080 Rifle Brigade. SDGW 03/05/1917 9 Bn.

Brian

 

[Ivor Anderson]

6 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

think Paul Morris is 10080 Rifle Brigade. SDGW 03/05/1917 9 Bn.

He has a surviving service record on Ancestry: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1219&h=1347085&tid=&pid=&queryId=94f93d8b977839d1a29f24b5c215ba56&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF3520&_phstart=successSource       Attested 24 April 1915.

[brianmorris547]

Thanks Ivor.

[brianmorris547]

From the Bolton Journal May 1915. Eight recruits to the KRRC and one to the Rifle Brigade.

Most recruits were enlisting into the Reserve Bns of 5 Loyal North Lancs and the Reserve Brigades of the Bolton Artillery.

07/05 - None

14/05 KRRC

Barron, Albert C   35 Brookfield St - WO 363 Rifle Brigade S/10518 Discharged para 392 29/12/1915 Making a mis statement to age.

Gillett, Richard     13 Perth St  3 KRRC R/12818 POW 30/11/1917 Cambrai.

Hutchinson, Richard    5 Osborne Grove  Rifle Brigade S/10519 later Machine Gun Corps.

21/05 KRRC

West, Robert    11 Fairfields

Young, John A    96 Newarth St, Walkden  9 KRRC R/12821

Young, Thomas    96 Newarth St, Walkden    R/12820    Named on Casualty Lists H 9024 and H 9088 May 1916    2 Bn KRRC

Rifle Brigade

Beales, George    229 St Helens Rd    WO 364 Rifle Brigade S/10711  Discharged para 392 18/06/1915 Making a mis statement to age.

28/05  KRRC

Crook, Ernest    9 Hennon St    WO 363 KRRC R/13181

Swain, Harry    66 Cross St

I attach this from R/12818 Richard Gillett's POW record which shows that he was from Blackburn. It made me laugh because the Germans had written Darren for place of Next of Kin. Darwen near Blackburn is known locally as Darren. I think it must be the same man in the BJ. He is on the same Medal Roll as John Young.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 November , 2022 by brianmorris547
typo

[familyhistoryman]

On 01/11/2022 at 18:17, brianmorris547 said:

From the Bolton Journal May 1915. Eight recruits to the KRRC and one to the Rifle Brigade.

Most recruits were enlisting into the Reserve Bns of 5 Loyal North Lancs and the Reserve Brigades of the Bolton Artillery.

07/05 - None

14/05 KRRC

Barron, Albert C   35 Brookfield St - WO 363 Rifle Brigade S/10518 Discharged para 392 29/12/1915 Making a mis statement to age.

Gillett, Richard     13 Perth St  3 KRRC R/12818 POW 30/11/1917 Cambrai.

Hutchinson, Richard    5 Osborne Grove  Rifle Brigade S/10519 later Machine Gun Corps.

21/05 KRRC

West, Robert    11 Fairfields

Young, John A    96 Newarth St, Walkden  9 KRRC R/12821

Young, Thomas    96 Newarth St, Walkden    R/12820    Named on Casualty Lists H 9024 and H 9088 May 1916    2 Bn KRRC

Rifle Brigade

Beales, George    229 St Helens Rd    WO 364 Rifle Brigade S/10711  Discharged para 392 18/06/1915 Making a mis statement to age.

28/05  KRRC

Crook, Ernest    9 Hennon St    WO 363 KRRC R/13181

Swain, Harry    66 Cross St

I attach this from R/12818 Richard Gillett's POW record which shows that he was from Blackburn. It made me laugh because the Germans had written Darren for place of Next of Kin. Darwen near Blackburn is known locally as Darren. I think it must be the same man in the BJ. He is on the same Medal Roll as John Young.

 

 

 

 

 

Gillett was born in Blackburn but by 1905 he had moved to Darwen

Tony

[MBrockway]

On 29/10/2022 at 07:07, Ivor Anderson said:

Quite a lot of 17th Bn. KRRC had C prefix: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_636897_11099-00113?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=b85adbbc9fa5b90b26d04b0e04d6f746&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF3430&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=2022447

C prefix does NOT designate members or former members of the Church Lads Brigade in the KRRC, nor was it limited to 16/KRRC.  In the KRRC schema, the C prefix was intended for men enlisting into the five KRRC battalions of the K4 and K5 New Armies. 

It was divided into blocks for each battalion roughly as follows:

beginning ....	K4/K5 Battalion
C/1	16th (Service) Bn (Church Lads Brigade), KRRC
C/3000	17th (S) Bn., (British Empire League), KRRC
C/6000	18th (S) Bn., (Arts & Crafts), KRRC
C/9000	20th (S) Bn., (British Empire League Pioneers), KRRC
C/12000	21st (S) Bn., (Yeoman Rifles), KRRC

There are some anomalies, as always, and once casualties began, replenishments and new recruits were distributed to all the KRRC battalions as required regardless of any preferences the men had expressed.

See my post higher up:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/299835-c-prefix-kings-royal-rifle-corps/?do=findComment&comment=3149978

 

Edited 5 November , 2022 by MBrockway

[Ivor Anderson]

1 minute ago, MBrockway said:

C prefix does NOT designate members or former members of the Church Lads Brigade in the KRRC, nor was it limited to 16/KRRC.  In the KRRC schema, the C prefix was intended for men enlisting into the five KRRC battalions of the K4 and K5 New Armies. 

Thanks. I was researching a 17th KRRC man at the time and my post was intended as evidence for your statement.

[MBrockway]

On 29/10/2022 at 08:22, brianmorris547 said:

Ivor

<snip> as it should be of interest to Mark and Andy <snip>

Brian

It most certainly is of great interest and we really appreciate the efforts being taken.  Many thanks!

[EDWARD1]

52 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

C prefix does NOT designate members or former members of the Church Lads Brigade in the KRRC, nor was it limited to 16/KRRC.  In the KRRC schema, the C prefix was intended for men enlisting into the five KRRC battalions of the K4 and K5 New Armies. 

It was divided into blocks for each battalion roughly as follows:

beginning ....	K4/K5 Battalion
C/1	16th (Service) Bn (Church Lads Brigade), KRRC
C/3000	17th (S) Bn., (British Empire League), KRRC
C/6000	18th (S) Bn., (Arts & Crafts), KRRC
C/9000	20th (S) Bn., (British Empire League Pioneers), KRRC
C/12000	21st (S) Bn., (Yeoman Rifles), KRRC

There are some anomalies, as always, and once casualties began, replenishments and new recruits were distributed to all the KRRC battalions as required regardless of any preferences the men had expressed.

See my post higher up:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/299835-c-prefix-kings-royal-rifle-corps/?do=findComment&comment=3149978

 

As my post above, post 3. 3rd Sept

[MBrockway]

On 04/09/2022 at 14:29, EDWARD1 said:

The Great War Medal Collectors Companion Vol 11 Howard Williamson quotes ;-

C1-C1999 16th Btn, C3001-C4999 17th, C6001-C7999 18th, C9001-C9999 20th and C12001-C12999 21st

The only minor error in Williamson is 21/KRRC extends past C/12999.

The BW&VM roll goes to C/13047 and Mortensen in his OMRS article cites "C/13100+" for 21/KRRC ... presumably on the basis that a late enlistment into 21/KRRC with a C/13xxx service number stood a good chance of being transferred (and thus being re-numbered) before embarking.

 

 

[brianmorris547]

The Bolton Journal June 1915 has three recruits to the Kings Royal Rifle Corps and nine to the Rifle Brigade.

04/06/1915 KRR

Richardson, Robt 14 Longworth Cottages, Sharlpes.

Smith, John F 39 Dijon St - R/13384 named on the document headed 14 KRR. 30/06/1915 transferred to RFA. WO 363.

Wallwork, Joseph 77 Kestor St - R/13383 12, 17 and 1 Bn KRR

11/06/1915 Rifle Brigade

Collier, Willoughby 16 Poplar View - WO 364 Dis para 392 30/11/1915.

Lord, Arthur 16 Grosvenor St Radcliffe - S/12803 WO 363 k in a 20/03/1918 11 Bn.

Molyneux, Wilfred 76 Cross Lane Radcliffe - S/12802 WO 363 k in a 20/08/1916 9 Bn.

18/06/1915 Rifle Brigade

Benson, Thos 221 Alma St, Ainsworth Rd Radcliffe - S/13075 10 Bn Dis para 392 05/07/1917 wounds.

Gregson, Geo 7 Kay St Little Lever - S/13071 7 Bn Dis para 392 09/05/1917 wounds.

Howarth, Ernest 7 Walter St, Black Lane (Radcliffe) - S/13074 15 Bn later 607803 Labour Corps. WO 363.

Ward, Walter 41 John St - 13073 later 58543 Northants Regt.

Whitlow, Jas Wm 25 St Helier's St - S/13072 10 Bn Dis para 392 1919. Named on Casualty List H 9467 which I will also post on that thread.

Wagstaff, Leslie 108 Ainsworth Rd Radcliffe.