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Remembered Today:

35 sqn Can anyone tell me some info about this photograph


arantxa

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Thank you 

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Edited by arantxa
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The aircraft is an AW FK.8 (nowadays erroneously called an "Armstrong Whitworth FK.8), and from the photo I'd say assigned to an active (rather than reserve or training) squadron. That's due to the presence of Observers, who were not co-trained with the pilots. That leaves you with a limited number of RFC squadrons to choose from: 2, 8, 10, 17, 35, 36, 39, 47, 50, 82 and 142. Since some of those were overseas-based and this looks like a Home Defence location, I'd lean towards one of those. 

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Thank you I shall look up the plane now I know what it is … Thank you so you for your advice 

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Other than the F on the tailplane of the aircraft they are arranged in front of off, there probably isn't enough visible information to make a positive identification, but may be worth an extreme close up as it does look like there is something there.

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And because of the way you are holding the first image it's difficult to make out but I believe some part of the aeroplane parked behind it is visible, (as well as the tip of the wing just above the elbow of the man at the left hand end of the top row). Could be a tailplane and could read F.829 or F.629.

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Don't know if it helps with narrowing down the squadron, but looks like a healthy smattering of Royal Naval Air Service men in amongst them, such as these:-

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Top row - right end two,  middle row - centre two, bottom row - left end.

Can't speak as to whether it's home defence or not but there seems to be a smattering of medal ribbons on display, including a possible M.C.

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And one man at least seems to have three years overseas service.

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Cheers,
Peter

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I will have a look with a magnifying glass

 

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The plane in the far background says F628 

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38 minutes ago, arantxa said:

The plane in the far background says F628 

Aircraft serial numbers are way outside my comfort zone:)

Does appear to be anything for on The Aerodrome website, and according to this website nothing like it was issued in connection with the FK.8. http://britishaviation-ptp.com/aw_fk8.html

One for the real cognescenti !

Cheers,
Peter

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I can see F628 was 35 Squadron and there are photos of personnel for 1918.

https://35squadron.wordpress.com/category/2-wwi/personnel-wwi/1918-personnel/

Face comparison time?

Perhaps add 35 Squadron the the topic title?

TEW

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It says 35 sqn 

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Sorry our posts must have crossed 

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  • arantxa changed the title to 35 sqn Can anyone tell me some info about this photograph
2 hours ago, TEW said:

Airhistory has something on F628.

The jargon and abbreviations outside of my zone.

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/rfc/files/F1-F9999.txt

TEW

Mine too, but I think it's telling us the aircraft was a rebuild which might explain why it's serial numbers falls outside those delivered from the manufacturer under contract.

2 hours ago, TEW said:

Face comparison time?

If only :) Images on the wordpress site are a bit low quality, and in a number of the pictures the officers are not wearing hats. Conversely in this picture some of those hats have led to shadows obscuring even more of the face.

We also don't know when the picture that is the subject of this thread was taken. The ones on the wordpress site that come from 1918 all date to the opening months of the year. If 35 Squadron suffered losses during the German Spring Offensive then could have been almost a complete turnover of personnel. Might also explain why 15 out of the 42 men pictured appear to be Royal Naval Air Service - a Flight perhaps attached to being the Squadron back up to strength?

All I could readily think to focus on was Scottish Regiment Officers of which there are two in this thread picture. The Wordpress site may may both, but with head uncovered in their pictures it's difficult to be sure.

But despite the very different expressions I think this man on the top left hand end of the OP and this man from the picture of A Flight dated March \ 1918 have some features in common.

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Image on the right courtesy https://35squadron.wordpress.com/category/2-wwi/personnel-wwi/1918-personnel/

All image rights remain with the original sources. Restrictions on re-use may apply.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited by PRC
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Yes I think that is the same man 

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There's a lot of same names for 1918 & 1919 on the WordPress site.

I'd say arantxa's photo must also be the same years although there are a lot of additional people, training perhaps?

I had in mind a similarity of the rather stern looking Scots man rear row centre, under the wing in arantxa's image and 'Grosssmith' of B flight, second from left rear row. Minus the hat but still stern looking.

Or the man with Hitler type moustache centre row of OP between two Americans, 4th from right of seated men and 3rd from left, rear row of A flight.

Trouble is they're squinting from the sun in arantxa's photo and not so much on WordPress.

Left/Right of photo not their Left/Right.

TEW

 

 

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1 hour ago, arantxa said:

Yes I think that is the same man 

Time for your magnifying glass again:)

I believe the man in the A Flight is wearing the single wing of an observer over his left breast pocket. There may be something similar for the man in your picture or it could be the way the light is hitting him.

Not sure about the shape of the cap badge for him on your picture. It looks almost like a pacman \ pizza with a slice missing on the A Flight picture.

The A Flight man is also wearing regimental insignia on his jacket collar. I don't think there is the equivalent on your picture but again could be the way the light is catching it.

Cheers,
Peter

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A lot of this is way beyond me EG. there are infantry battalion officers. Why are they there if not training or for future transfer to RFC/RAF.

Perhaps some men are present in the photos from both sources but re-uniformed, with/without headwear and squinting a bit.

There are Americans in both sets of photos Would you have RNAS men at an active operation airfield?

TEW

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2 hours ago, TEW said:

A lot of this is way beyond me EG. there are infantry battalion officers. Why are they there if not training or for future transfer to RFC/RAF.

Perhaps some men are present in the photos from both sources but re-uniformed, with/without headwear and squinting a bit.

There are Americans in both sets of photos Would you have RNAS men at an active operation airfield?

TEW

I think the information of the AirHistory site is that F628 was only transferred to 35 Squadron on the 17th October 1918 and returned to England on the 11th February 1919.

Sites like Wikipedia have 35 Squadron returning to England in March 1919 and disbanded in June 1919.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._35_Squadron_RAF

So timeframe for the picture is probably October 1918 / February 1919. It seems unlikely it was taken in England after the Squadron returned.

Army Officers who were originally on the strength of a Regiment \ Corps would initially have been attached to the Royal Flying Corps, and subsequently attached to the Royal Air Force. As they had to purchase their own uniforms there was no compulsion at that stage for them to adopt Royal Air Force dress. Many of the Army officers in the picture are qualified as either pilots or observers, so have completed their initial training. There is a strong possibility that those who aren't wearing the wings \ half wings were actual on the support side rather than pupils under training.

With the merger of the Royal Flying Corps with most of the Royal Naval Air Service to form the Royal Air Force, personnel from both former arms would and did start serving together, along with those who joined the RAF subsequent to the merger. Whether that extended to say disbanding a former RNAS Squadron and distributing it's Flights accross former RFC Squadrons in order to bring them up to strength is the bit I don't know about - it may never have happened.

If the picture was taken during that end of 1918/start 1919 period then men would have been authorised to wear the ribbon of the 1914 Star or the 1914/15 Star, so those may be some of the ribbons on display. It may also explain the presence of the scarfs:)

Cheers,
Peter

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On 28/08/2022 at 18:18, TEW said:

 

 the man with Hitler type moustache centre row of OP between two Americans, 4th from right of seated men and 3rd from left, rear row of A flight.

 

I object to the description of the officer having a Hitler moustache.Its bigger than that.Anyway 'Charlie Chaplain would be a more concurrent comparison.

More importantly , those are not Americans either side of him.They are British wearing forage caps.

 

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