Help. 5820650 Pte Bertram Gilbert Suffolk Regiment WW1

[JARCD]

Hi everyone, I’m trying to research my grandfather Bertram Gilbert. I don’t think his service record has survived but I have a copy of his medal award cards and can see he initially enlisted with the Manchester Regiment and  was then transferred to the Suffolks (on 17 Apr 1915). However the card doesn’t give his battalion. (Post war he was involved in the Battle of Malabar in 1921 and I have his medal.

I am trying to trace his service throughout WW1.  As always any information and guidance will be gratefully accepted.

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, JARCD said:

Hi everyone, I’m trying to research my grandfather Bertram Gilbert. I don’t think his service record has survived but I have a copy of his medal award cards and can see he initially enlisted with the Manchester Regiment and  was then transferred to the Suffolks (on 17 Apr 1915). However the card doesn’t give his battalion. (Post war he was involved in the Battle of Malabar in 1921 and I have his medal.

I am trying to trace his service throughout WW1.  As always any information and guidance will be gratefully accepted.

His medal roll entry shows overseas service with 8th Manchester Regt. then 9th, 5th, and finally 6th Battalions before transfer to the Suffolk Regt. 

[JARCD]

Thank you for that - I think the date of enlistment to the Suffolk Regt that I have been told by my family of 17 Apr 1915 must be incorrect.

[Michelle Young]

If he served post war, his service record should be with the MOD. 

[PRC]

2 hours ago, JARCD said:

Post war he was involved in the Battle of Malabar in 1921 and I have his medal.

If he was still serving in 1921 then his papers would still be with the Ministry of Defence. Details of how to apply for them can be found here - https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

The seven digit number you have quoted for him comes from the 1920 Army renumbering and comes from part of the block allocated to the Suffolk Regiment. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/new-british-army-numbers-issued-in-1920/

Cheers,
Peter

[JARCD]

I will order his service record but at the moment it will take 2 years to get it. with all the relocation to Kew

[GWF1967]

11 minutes ago, JARCD said:

Thank you for that - I think the date of enlistment to the Suffolk Regt that I have been told by my family of 17 Apr 1915 must be incorrect.

70617 - John Alexander Briggs has surviving service papers which show a post war transfer to the Suffolk Regiment on 25/9/19, before being finally discharged in December 1920.

The April 1915 date may relate to his initial attestation to the Manchester Regt. 

Edited 25 August , 2022 by GWF1967

[JARCD]

Thank you. I know Bertram Gilbert also fought at Malabar (1921-2) so maybe he transferred to Suffolks on 17 Apr 1919? not 1915. I have also been told by family that he remained in the Army until 1937 reaching the rank of CSM in the Suffolk Regt but of course I cannot verify that without records.

[PRC]

And the Manchester Regiment number on his MiC of 303894 ties in with the renumbering of the other ranks serving with the Territorial Force Battalions at the start of 1917. The number block allocated to the 8th Battalions of the Manchester Regiment ran from 300001 to 350000, so likely it was a left over number that was subsequently issued.

A quick check of the CWGC database shows the first death of a six digit 3038xx Manchester Regiment man as occurring on the 4th October 1917, (Private 303810 Alfred Lowe, 11th Battalion).

Certainly the MiC only shows Bertrams' Great War Medals as the Victory Medal and British War Medal, which means he did not serve in a Theatre of War until the 1st January 1916 at the very, very earliest. He also qualified for the Indian General Service Medal, which presumably is the one you are referring to.

6 minutes ago, JARCD said:

I will order his service record but at the moment it will take 2 years to get it. with all the relocation to Kew

The MOD have said there is a process in place to recall individual service records in the event that a query is received - and that is if they've even been transferred yet. I'm fairly sure someone on the forum reported that only part of the Royal Engineers records had gone by early summer, and there was no schedule as yet for FindMyPast to scan them.

You may also want to check out what's available via the Ogilby Muster - the Suffolk Regiment Museuam are part of this initiative to start putting archive materials online. https://www.theogilbymuster.com/regimental_collections

Cheers,
Peter

[GWF1967]

6 minutes ago, JARCD said:

Thank you. I know Bertram Gilbert also fought at Malabar (1921-2) so maybe he transferred to Suffolks on 17 Apr 1919? not 1915. I have also been told by family that he remained in the Army until 1937 reaching the rank of CSM in the Suffolk Regt but of course I cannot verify that without records.

Best of luck.  Patience, I’m told, is a virtue. 

[JARCD]

Thank you. It certainly is a virtue !

[Keith_history_buff]

 He should be in the Army Form 358 compiled from 1920 onwards, with the switch to new seven digit numbers. 

On 01/02/2020 at 18:37, stabilis said:

The Suffolk Regiment 358s (Suffolk Record Office, Bury St Edmunds) are all indexed.