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Please Help me to Identify my new Sword and Bayonet Find!


cpo

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Hi All,

Please help me to identify a new acquisition.  I am trying to narrow down the country of origin, the approximate year of manufacture, and what unit it was carried by.

It is a Short Sword in a Wooden Scabbard with a Bayonet held by Clamped Brackets attached to the Scabbard.

SHORT SWORD
Length of the blade is 480 mm long (approx 18.75")
Blade width at the hilt is 24mm wide.
Hilt is 120mm long.
Overall sword length 600mm.
Blade is etched on both sides and has a crown in the etching.
S-Cross Guard is brass (no markings).
Birdhead-style Pommel
Hilt is Brass, left side smooth, right side 19 oblique grooves
Has Single Edge which is dull, does not appear to me to have ever been sharpened.

BAYONET
M1886 Lebel bayonet With Shortened Cruciform blade.
Hilt/Grips are either Nickel silver or aluminium bronze hilt without quillion.
Blade Length is 340mm
Blade Thickness is 13mm
Overall Length 460mm

SCABBARD
Scabbard is wood which appears to be covered in a coated fabric finish.
Locket is Brass
Chape has been broken off (I do not have it)
There are three brackets.
Bracket 1 is screwed into the Locket and appears to be for attaching a Baldric.
Bracket 2 and 3 are screwed on in a clamp style.  
Brackets 2 and 3 are specifically for holding the M1886 Bayonet to the Scabbard.
Bracket 2 has the number 0147 stamped into it.
Bracket 3 has a brass ring attached.

Thanks.  I have been unable to find a sword and bayonet combo like this online.

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Edited by cpo
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  • cpo changed the title to Please Help me to Identify my new Sword and Bayonet Find!

CPO,

Welcome to the GWF.

I cannot identify your short sword, but I’m sure that the experts will be along shortly.

In the meantime, I would like to thank you for the dimensional details and excellent photos that you have provided.

This post could be used as a text-book example of how to present such a request.

Is taking measurements a part of your professional life?

Regards,

JMB

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The brass one is German. It is a “ Parade” side arm, also commonly called “ A Walking Out Stick”.   The Blade, flat steel is press or roll on engraving. Whichever term you like. On assembly line, the blade ( I am guessing  it would be heated) would roll through two engraving rollers, pressing down on the blade to engrave. There are two types of engraving sets. The Army that you have and the rare Navy, which I only have seen 3-4 in over 20 years. At least 2 large “ blade” companies , knife/sword ect offered them in catalogs 

Originally, the brass hilt was patterned on shape of 1860’s short swords, as fashinenmessers, the size of a Cutless sword.also the 1860 Fusilier bayonet. 
 

These parade pieces were designed to be inexpensive for the common soldier to by, so smaller, thinner and cheaper steel was used. There are several types to be found. The hilts are usually the same, sometimes the final on some is swept forward a little more than others.The main difference being the cross guard. Like yours, a straighter guard, a thinner guard, and also 2 types I know with “ fake” muzzle rings, all of these cross guards are in brass or at least brass coated. There are also simple steel guards.  A good exemption is one with saw back. 
None of these have a mortise slot for a bayonet lug to slide into. A few, usually with a muzzle ring also have a fake steel leaf spring on right side

The scabbard is patterned like the S.71 but a lot thinner, and frog stud is thinner/ longer and surface more rounded instead of flat face of the bayonet. Same black leather body with brass chape and final ( top/ bottom) All of these came with or an option of a felt washer to slide down the blade to fit snug on face of cross guard, will look for  a few of mine to show you if I can tonight 

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Hello.

Scabbard from a russian saber M1881 "Shashha" , the brackets are used for holding Mossin-Nagant bayonet M 1891

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Forgot to say, these Parade side arms came with black painted patent leather, slim frogs

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6AF77515-F35A-442B-B242-825118B083DA.jpeg

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As already corectly mentioned bayonet is a dress version of S1871 or a Faschinenmesser used by germans for walking out.

Lebel is in reality M1886/15 with 34cm long blade shortened by germans in WW2 and called S103(f) should have normal scabbard

the remains of sabre scabbard is russian or soviet Schashka M1909 or M1927 with assembling ring for Mosin 91 socket bayonet. The scabbard was broken out in half lenght.

 

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Quite an amazing set up when all is said and done! I am in the UK presently and so no access to books, but I think that Lebel cut-down is a bit too long for the German WW2 version - please check, AndyB

Julian

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Note the mentioned lenght in first answer :

Blade Length is 340mm

is exactly what would be the blade lenght by german WW2 shortage. Possible there is blueing on blade, but overhelmed with surface rust.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Thanks for checking AndyB.

Julian

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