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Help Needed - Odd MIC - 25501 Pte J Couch E Kent R


James R

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I am hoping someone may be able to help me with this gentleman.

I am looking at the MIC for Joseph Couch which is not like any MIC I have seen before - it does not have the same structure or format.

It shows his corps as Northumberland Fusiliers Depot and his number as 69640, yet his BWM is named to him as 25501 in E Kent R - a number and regiment that is also noted on the MIC I have found on TNA.  Both numbers also appear to be on the low side given he enlisted on 12th May 1917

Would anyone be able to answer the following questions:

  • What is the MIC I have found on TNA - it looks more like it was created as a tracer card given it includes his enlistment and discharge dates
  • Does he appear on any of the medal rolls?
  • Is there any way of telling if he had prior service which led to the lowish numbers?
  • Are there any records of his injuries for award of his SWB?
  • Is there any way of finding out if he was a POW? He does not appear on the ICRC website, but not sure if any other way of telling

Thank you in advance

James

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Here’s some details, about the types of medal index cards. 
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/
Also attached is his MIC,  courtesy of Ancestry.co.uk

7BFABB76-0546-4868-9DA5-48A1569D10AE.jpeg

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Thank you very much Michelle.

From the link you sent me it appears the card is the third type which relates to the issue of the SWB.  How odd that I cannot find a standard type of card for the issue of his medals, and they are instead stamped on here.

The plot thickens as my great grandfather served with the Northumberland Fusiliers with a slightly lower service number, even though he enlisted about 5 months after Joseph Couch

Did the medal rolls appear on ancestry when you found his MIC?

Thanks again

James

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He in on the NF Medal Roll as that is the unit he served with last - but his medals are named to the EKR (7th Battalion) with number 25501 as that is the unit he first served with overseas.

You can see this on his MIC - it is the reason for the * against his EKR & number and also adjacent to the box stamp which identifies his medals.

Regards

Russ

 

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I don’t have full Ancestry access, only the free access, which is basically limited to MIC

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Thank you Russ

My great grandfather was serving with the 12/13th Northumberland Fusiliers when he was taken POW (first posted missing 27th/29th May 1918) - his service number was 69375 so I have a strong feeling that Joseph Couch must have served with him, and potentially they were POWs together.

Does the NF medal roll have the battalion number on it?

Just now, Michelle Young said:

I don’t have full Ancestry access, only the free access, which is basically limited to MIC

Thanks Michelle - I have a feeling I may need to resubsribe to Ancestry as there appear to be some pension records as well

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The card informs us that he is on the BWM & VM roll. The old reference for the roll is O/1/105B48 

The modern day archive reference is WO 329/722 and pages 11515-11817 of the other ranks' BWM & VM roll are contained therein. The "O" prefix relates to the Infantry Record Office at York, who performed admin for the Northumberland Fusiliers

The SWB was likewise issued from the Infantry Record Office at York,

Quote

O-York.

Yorkshire Regt.19

East Yorkshire Regt.15

Durham Light Infantry (DLI).68

Northern Cyclist Battalion.

Northumberland Fusiliers.5

West Riding Regt.33

Yorkshire & Lancashire Regt (York & Lanc).65

King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (KOYLI).51

West Yorkshire Regt.14

[The numbers reflect the pre-1881 order of precedence, when the Northumberland Fusiliers were known as the 5th Regiment of Foot.]

 

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I do not have access to Ancestry, so cannot answer your question as to whether the battalions are stated on the medal roll.

Of interest is George Thomas Elam. He has a surviving service record, which may give a date for when he and others were transferred from the Buffs to the Northumberland Fusiliers. 

Elam's numbers are:

Regt No Rank   Regiment
25509 Private   Buffs (East Kent Regiment)
69642 Private   Northumberland Fusiliers
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That is great, thanks Keith.

If Mr Elam was also captured around the same date as my great grandfather then I would be even more confident Joseph Couch was as well.

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3 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

Is there similar info for 69640 Couch on the prior page of the medal roll?

Nothing on the previous page. Found him elsewhere (image courtesy of Ancestry)

Couch.jpg

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  • 5 months later...

Hi James, thank you for enquiring after Joseph Couch. I believe this is my Great Grandfather. We have always been told that he was discharged from service when a shell fell on his foot. I’m really struggling to get any further information to make a positive connection. 

FADF1738-586A-4CCE-89F4-68E935B24385.jpeg

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