Composition of Territorial Field Companies in the RE?

[Buffnut453]

I'm (slowly) working through the War Diary for the 1st (West Lancs) Field Coy, RE, which identifies the presence of a Mounted Section in December 1914.  The Diary also records the use of carts to carry tools and equipment.  This got me wondering what, exactly, was the composition of a Territorial RE Field Coy?  

Hopefully one of the experts out there can help me get a better understanding of the structure of Territorial Field Companies.

Many thanks in advance.  

[RussT]

7 minutes ago, Buffnut453 said:

the structure of Territorial Field Companies

Hopefully, this comes out OK and is readable.

This was the Establishment of a Field Company RE TF at the beginning of the war.

I'm unsure whether it changed during the war - most establishments did somewhat.

Regards

Russ

 

[Buffnut453]

6 hours ago, RussT said:

Hopefully, this comes out OK and is readable.

This was the Establishment of a Field Company RE TF at the beginning of the war.

I'm unsure whether it changed during the war - most establishments did somewhat.

Regards

Russ

 

 

Russ, that's perfect!  Not only does it lay out the number of men in the Company, it also describes what the Company did, and the number of wagons, carts and horses required.  That helps hugely.  

Inclusion of the Divisional Telegraph Company was a bonus.  Would those be separate from Divisional Signals Companies or were the Telegraph Companies later renamed as Signals?  Sorry if these are dumb questions but I don't speak sapper very well.

[RussT]

8 hours ago, Buffnut453 said:

Inclusion of the Divisional Telegraph Company was a bonus.  Would those be separate from Divisional Signals Companies or were the Telegraph Companies later renamed as Signals?

Beyond my very limited knowledge unfortunately - perhaps there are others on the Forum who know.

The Table comes from: "Regulations for the Territorial Force and for the County Associations, 1908"

The only other RE Establishments provided in the Regulations are those for the Wireless Telegraph Company, Cable Telegraph Company, Air-Line Telegraph Company, Balloon Company and the Railway Battalion.

When, how and if any (or none) of the above morphed into RE Signals and whether TF RE units may or may not have been the same/similar as Regular RE units I don't know. Might be worth having a look at what's on the LLT:

The Corps of Royal Engineers in the First World War - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

Regards

Russ

 

[brianmorris547]

The WD of the CRE 30 Div WO 95/2320 (Ancestry pages 22 - 26 and 34 - 38) has the numbers of tradesmen per Field Company and Divisional Signals Company. 30 Div were not TF but I think this would have applied to all Divisions. There are some HQ references mentioned in the papers. I attach p 24 as an example.

Brian

[Terry_Reeves]

Good post Brian.

TR

[Buffnut453]

5 hours ago, RussT said:

Beyond my very limited knowledge unfortunately - perhaps there are others on the Forum who know.

The Table comes from: "Regulations for the Territorial Force and for the County Associations, 1908"

The only other RE Establishments provided in the Regulations are those for the Wireless Telegraph Company, Cable Telegraph Company, Air-Line Telegraph Company, Balloon Company and the Railway Battalion.

When, how and if any (or none) of the above morphed into RE Signals and whether TF RE units may or may not have been the same/similar as Regular RE units I don't know. Might be worth having a look at what's on the LLT:

The Corps of Royal Engineers in the First World War - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

Regards

Russ

 

Hi Russ,

Many thanks for those additional details.  I suspect there was a merging of functions at some point.  Logically, a Signals Coy is closest to a Wireless Coy but the former had a CSM while, according to the pages you posted, the latter had no CSM. 

One of my relatives was a CSM in the 55th Div Signal Coy which was ordered to France in 1916 but he was a pre-War Territorial who was entitled to the TF War Medal.  All this makes me wonder if the concept for a Signals Coy evolved during 1915, perhaps amalgamating some of the existing communications Company staff.

Really appreciate you sharing these page images which help me better understand how the RE was organizaed.

Kind regards,
Mark

[Buffnut453]

4 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

The WD of the CRE 30 Div WO 95/2320 (Ancestry pages 22 - 26 and 34 - 38) has the numbers of tradesmen per Field Company and Divisional Signals Company. 30 Div were not TF but I think this would have applied to all Divisions. There are some HQ references mentioned in the papers. I attach p 24 as an example.

Brian

 

Brian,

This is great stuff.  I'm still struggling to work out where my steam locomotive stoker may have fit into this structure...but it certainly shows the breadth of skills available within a relatively small number of men.

Perchance, do you have a similar listing for a Division Signals Company?

Many thanks,
Mark

[brianmorris547]

Mark

From the same batch in the WD of 30 Div CRE. As you can see mostly telegraphists and cable men to begin with.

In 1917, for instance, a number of 42 Div RFA signallers were transferred to 42 Div Sigs Co RE.

Brian

[Buffnut453]

15 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

Mark

From the same batch in the WD of 30 Div CRE. As you can see mostly telegraphists and cable men to begin with.

In 1917, for instance, a number of 42 Div RFA signallers were transferred to 42 Div Sigs Co RE.

Brian

 

Many, MANY thanks Brian.  Interesting to see the breakdown of skills within the Coy, including a large number of motor cyclists.  

[Buffnut453]

'Fraid I have another question.  When a TF Field Coy moved to the front, would the Mounted Section move as part of the organization or would the sappers operate dismounted? 

I ask because the 1st (West Lancs) Field Coy mentions the use of busses to move from Bailleul through La Cytte and Dickebusch to the front near Potijze Wood on 30 April 1915. The busses only took the men as far as La Cytte due to German shelling of the roads, hence the rest of the journey was completed on foot.  

I'm wondering if the "busses" were motor vehicles (probably Type B "Old Bill" busses) or horse-drawn charabancs.  The former might outpace the Field Coy's Mounted Section, as well as the horse-drawn carts that transported the company's equipment.  

I presume there was a "marching order" for a Field Coy but what about when other transportation was used?  I'm just trying to work out how the 1st (West Lancs) Field Coy moved forward in late-April 1915 so any pointers would be very much appreciated.

[Terry_Reeves]

The mounted section were just that. They moved with the company, although at at a slower rate if the dismounted troops were bussed. The tools for the field sections for instance, were all carried in double tool carts, hauled by horses.

TR

 

 

 

[Buffnut453]

Many thanks @Terry_Reeves, I appreciate your insights.  My head explodes every time I think of the logistics involved in the Great War.  The sheer amount of men and materiel that was moved around the continent is mind-blowing.