7 (Fife) Black Watch: Didn't wear kilts until 1914.

[rolt968]

I tend to use Wauchope's History Of the Black Watch in WW1 as areference book - dipping into it for things I need to know. Working on a man from 7 BW, I decided to read the 7 BW section from the beginning. I came across something I didn't know before. Apologies to those of you to whom it isn't news.

On page 244 of Volune 3 its says: "Early in May 1914 the [Fife] Territorial Association had agreed to adopt the kilt as part of the uniform of the 7th".  Earlier on the page having discussed the difficulties of obatining supplies it says that about seven months after mobilisation the battalion was for the first time in its history able to parade in the regulation uniform of the Black Watch.

I take this to mean that 7 BW did not wear the kilt until 1914, probably after mobilisation. Am I right?

It's not unreasonable since the Fife Volunteers wore trousers, red (?) tunic and the infantry helmet. I came across one Grierson print like that but didn't notice tha date.

Has anyone found photos of 1/7 Black Watch pre 1914?

RM

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, rolt968 said:

I tend to use Wauchope's History Of the Black Watch in WW1 as areference book - dipping into it for things I need to know. Working on a man from 7 BW, I decided to read the 7 BW section from the beginning. I came across something I didn't know before. Apologies to those of you to whom it isn't news.

On page 244 of Volune 3 its says: "Early in May 1914 the [Fife] Territorial Association had agreed to adopt the kilt as part of the uniform of the 7th".  Earlier on the page having discussed the difficulties of obatining supplies it says that about seven months after mobilisation the battalion was for the first time in its history able to parade in the regulation uniform of the Black Watch.

I take this to mean that 7 BW did not wear the kilt until 1914, probably after mobilisation. Am I right?

It's not unreasonable since the Fife Volunteers wore trousers, red (?) tunic and the infantry helmet. I came across one Grierson print like that but didn't notice tha date.

Has anyone found photos of 1/7 Black Watch pre 1914?

RM

The uppermost photo is of Major Peter Duff of 7th Black Watch who was 56 when he volunteered as a veteran auxiliary to rejoin in 1914.  In May 1915 he was sent to France with the 1/7th.  His son also joined and was KIA.  

Edited 11 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

7 hours ago, rolt968 said:

I tend to use Wauchope's History Of the Black Watch in WW1 as areference book - dipping into it for things I need to know. Working on a man from 7 BW, I decided to read the 7 BW section from the beginning. I came across something I didn't know before. Apologies to those of you to whom it isn't news.

On page 244 of Volune 3 its says: "Early in May 1914 the [Fife] Territorial Association had agreed to adopt the kilt as part of the uniform of the 7th".  Earlier on the page having discussed the difficulties of obatining supplies it says that about seven months after mobilisation the battalion was for the first time in its history able to parade in the regulation uniform of the Black Watch.

I take this to mean that 7 BW did not wear the kilt until 1914, probably after mobilisation. Am I right?

It's not unreasonable since the Fife Volunteers wore trousers, red (?) tunic and the infantry helmet. I came across one Grierson print like that but didn't notice tha date.

Has anyone found photos of 1/7 Black Watch pre 1914?

RM

You are correct in what Grierson says about the matter. No kilts as a VB.

I have the below image that is labeled 7BW Crieff Kit Inspection 22nd July 1912.  Hope this helps.

[rolt968]

Thank you both!

I'm confused!

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

Thank you both!

I'm confused!

It needs more investigation clearly.  I suspect it was obtaining kilts in volume that was a problem. They had to be funded and it might be that some companies had them and perhaps others not.  Subscriptions were paid by unit members and fundraiser initiatives were not unusual.  There was a difference between uniform supplied by official TF County association funding and uniform supplied via self help.  Typically British in other words.

Edited 11 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The uppermost photo is of Major Peter Duff of 7th Black Watch who was 56 when he volunteered as a veteran auxiliary to rejoin in 1914.  In May 1915 he was sent to France with the 1/7th.  His son also joined and was KIA.  

Frogsmile,

In your last most image of the Lt Col, without collar badges he is unlikely to be a TF officer.  Indeed, I would be (more than) almost certain that this is a photo of then Lt Col (later Brig Gen) Lewis Pugh Evans VC, CB, CMG, DSO and bar. He won his VC in 1917 while commanding the 1st Bn Lincolnshire Regiment. The innermost ribbon might be the VC, with the DSO alongside.  Perhaps, somebody will come along who is better versed in deciphering orthochromatic rendering and can read the medal ribbons more accurately.

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, gordon92 said:

Frogsmile,

In your last most image of the Lt Col, without collar badges he is unlikely to be a TF officer.  Indeed, I would be (more than) almost certain that this is a photo of then Lt Col (later Brig Gen) Lewis Pugh Evans VC, CB, CMG, DSO and bar. He won his VC in 1917 while commanding the 1st Bn Lincolnshire Regiment. The innermost ribbon might be the VC, with the DSO alongside.  Perhaps, somebody will come along who is better versed in deciphering orthochromatic rendering and can read the medal ribbons more accurately.

Mike

Yes I agree it’s the same officer.  Also that officers of regular Black Watch battalions did not generally wear collar badges.  It’s useful evidence that officers of highland regiments, including regulars, did not necessarily in every eventuality wear either, kilts, or trews.  Part of that related to whether or not the officer concerned was of field rank and dressed for mounted duty.  In review order he would wear regimental trews, but in field service marching order he would wear khaki breeches and spurs (as is the case with Peter Duff).

NB.  The same principle applied to the Jocks (soldiers) of the battalion transport section. 

Edited 12 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Andrew Upton]

1 hour ago, gordon92 said:

...The innermost ribbon might be the VC, with the DSO alongside.  Perhaps, somebody will come along who is better versed in deciphering orthochromatic rendering and can read the medal ribbons more accurately...

I read the medal ribbons as:

1917 or earlier VC (without miniature emblem) - edit - but potentially the pre-1917 CB ribbon could be a contender, depending on the date of award

DSO

1911 Coronation Medal or Delhi Durbar Medal

QSA

KSA

All followed by at least one other partially obscured I can't tell from what's left.

Edited 11 August , 2022 by Andrew Upton

[gordon92]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

I read the medal ribbons as:

Pre-1917 VC (without miniature emblem)

DSO

1911 Coronation Medal or Delhi Durbar Medal

QSA

KSA

All followed by at least one other partially obscured I can't tell from what's left.

Thank you, Andrew. That is helpful. 

[rolt968]

14 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

It needs more investigation clearly.  I suspect it was obtaining kilts in volume that was a problem. They had to be funded and it might be that some companies had them and perhaps others not.  Subscriptions were paid by unit members and fundraiser initiatives were not unusual.  There was a difference between uniform supplied by official TF County association funding and uniform supplied via self help.  Typically British in other words.

Obtaining kilts in volume was certainly a problem when 14 (Fife and Forfar Yeomanry) was formed. They did not receive kilts for several months. (The only kilts they received at first were very large size - presumably not of use to any other battalion.)

To return to the original point. The Territorial Association decided in May 1914 that the battalion should wear kilts. (Incidentally I wonder where Wauchope got that from?) I would expect that the officers had themselves fitted more or less immediately. Presumably the other ranks had to wait to be suppied?

RM

[FROGSMILE]

22 hours ago, rolt968 said:

Obtaining kilts in volume was certainly a problem when 14 (Fife and Forfar Yeomanry) was formed. They did not receive kilts for several months. (The only kilts they received at first were very large size - presumably not of use to any other battalion.)

To return to the original point. The Territorial Association decided in May 1914 that the battalion should wear kilts. (Incidentally I wonder where Wauchope got that from?) I would expect that the officers had themselves fitted more or less immediately. Presumably the other ranks had to wait to be suppied?

RM

The evidence you have that the official authority for kitting out occurred in 1914 is clear.  The matter of kilts had long been quite controversial.  Even in 1881, when the make up of the new ‘territorial’ infantry regiments was agreed (there were several literally last minute changes to the mergers, most of which related to highland units), it was decreed that the militia battalions would wear trews in lieu of kilts, and the volunteer battalions (former rifle volunteers) were far too hot a potato to interfere with their dress at all initially.  It took until the late 1880s before that latter aspect began to be addressed seriously.

You raise an interesting point about the TF officers, who were always quite keen to emulate their regular counterparts in matters of dress, while at the same time attempting to retain connection with their own historical lineage.  Most were landowners and gentlemen and so in the tradition of their class, uniforms, just like their civilian clothes, were made bespoke.  Along with their soldiers they paid a membership subscription simply to join, so it seems very unlikely that they received any form of grant to purchase uniform.  The usual (and long standing) deal with government was to receive long arms, ammunition and load carrying equipment, plus the cloth to make uniforms at some kind of favourable rate. Contracts were then set with the manufacturers (clothiers) that were largely centred around Edinburgh, Yorkshire (wool) and Lancashire (cotton).  I don’t know if there were any minor changes to those arrangements when the Volunteer Force was stood down (actually placed in suspended animation as it turned out) and the Territorial Force raised in its place, but I doubt that much was altered.

My impression is that kilts and their adornments were more expensive than the uniforms issued to soldiers of the other home nations, so hence the relectance or prevarication over their being supplied to auxiliary units, who were always intended to be relatively cheap for the exchequer**.  However, every young crofter, shepherd, machinist and coal hewer wanted to ‘go for a sojer’ in the clothing that he had been taught Rob Roy wore (albeit a fallacy), and it was seen as a powerful recruiting motivator.  You only have to see the thread showing young men photographed wearing spoof uniforms, provided as props, by enterprising Edinburgh and Glasgow photographic studios in the early months of the war.

**the differential is stark when the priced vocabulary for clothing and necessaries (PVCN - for soldiers) and tailors bills (for officers) for Scottish and non-Scottish are examined and compared.

NB.  I believe it very likely that, just as you posited, officers were kitted out more quickly via their tailors than the men were via the ordnance supply chain, not least because the enthusiasm for all things Scottish was being emulated in the Dominions (where it was equally good for recruiting) and everyone was competing for the cloth (especially the Canadians).  It was a thriving period for Edinburgh and the mills that supplied it.

Edited 13 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE