Harness and Saddlery query

[Fromelles]

I have been looking through Equipment Standing Orders for the Commonwealth Military Forces (1909). In particular I've been looking at Harness and Saddlery in relation to what was issued to officers and men of the Light Horse on mobilisation.

There are a number of items that I am unfamiliar with and am hoping to find out more. Quite a few items are of a Commonwealth Pattern, however some are of a British pattern, it's these I'm hoping that I might get help with:

• Protectors, cape or cloak, Mk II
• Straps, Baggage Mk III
• Case, horse-shoe, pattern 1884
• Straps, Shoe-case, pattern 1884
• Girths, leather, pattern 1884, Mk II
• Collars, head, Mk IV

I don't have any List of Changes entries for any of the above. I have the LoC entry for the Case, Horse-shoe, with sword frog, Mk I (#13235) and Mk II (#14293), however I don't believe the Light Horse were issued these till later in the war.

I found a comprehensive list of items the Commonwealth Government Harness Factory (CGHF) manufactured throughout its 12 years existence, with most of the above items being made throughout the war. I have a number of straps made by the CGHF that I suspect are baggage straps, however I don't know the specifications of the baggage straps Mk III to know if mine are of the correct pattern. The CGHF made so many different types of 'straps' that I'm not totally convinced mine aren't for some other usage.

There is a real lack of info on the forum, in relation to saddlery, that any help would be very much appreciated.

Dan

[muz303]

Dan,

I can't help with your query, however, I've been collecting CGHF gear for 20 odd years and would be interested in the list of items manufactured you have.  It is possible the baggage straps are what were also referred to as equipment straps used to secure bedding etc under the cantle of the saddle.

Cheers,

Mario

[Fromelles]

Mario,

There seems to be a real lack of knowledge of British pattern saddlery, however I have received some very useful information, via PM, from a very helpful forum member - thank you RMAMarshall

Yes, the Straps, Baggage, Mk III are the ones used to secure greatcoat/bedding etc to the saddle, however I'm wanting to find out any details on the strap (length, width, buckle type etc) to confirm if my straps fit the bill.

Things like Protectors, cape or cloak, Mk II I don't have a clue what it is or even looks like. 

The CGHF Reports are online (as well as all the other 'Government' Factories): Parliament of Australia initially the CGHF Reports (1912-15) are a seperate report, but from 1916 the reports are combined with the other Government Factory reports.

Another discovery is the 1912 pattern saddle is referred to (in Australia at least) as the Saddles, S.A., Pattern 1910, Adjustable initially I thought is was a misprint, however, I've found numerous listings of the 'Pattern 1910' in the following scans... The Equipment SO (1909) is interesting as it predates the introduction of the saddle... 

Standing Orders for the Equipment of the Commonwealth Military Forces - Part 1 - General (1909) -

• 

CGHF Report 1915 (also included in reports 1912-13 to 1918-19) -

• 

CMF Record Book (CM Form M8 - Amended 9 April 1913) -

• 

I believe the Pattern '12 was patented in 1910 which may explain this date 

Dan

Edited 18 August , 2022 by Fromelles

[reese williams]

Try searching on militaryhorse.org I haven't been active on it for several years but they used to have a section that incorporated a defunct British cavalry gear website (1902UP) had a couple of serious British collectors/contributors there. Overall a friendly group.

[reese williams]

The 1912UP saddle was largely a failure as the pivot points in the tree were prone to breaking.  I believe most units reverted to the 1902UP. 

[Fromelles]

44 minutes ago, reese williams said:

Try searching on militaryhorse.org I haven't been active on it for several years but they used to have a section that incorporated a defunct British cavalry gear website (1902UP) had a couple of serious British collectors/contributors there. Overall a friendly group.

Yes, it was once a really good site, however it's gone to pot, the UP Saddle sub-forum has now been archived. 

John Morgan was one very knowledgable contributor, not sure what happened, I hope he didn't pass away 

 

41 minutes ago, reese williams said:

The 1912UP saddle was largely a failure as the pivot points in the tree were prone to breaking.  I believe most units reverted to the 1902UP. 

I have heard that before... if so, it doesn't explain why the Australians didn't follow suit where it remained by far and away the saddle of choice. 

In Australia, production of the Pattern 1902 pretty much ceased upon the introduction of the Pattern 1910 (1912)

Edited 18 August , 2022 by Fromelles

[reese williams]

JM was exactly who I was thinking about. I believe he's a Brit, you might be able to find him on FB or some such. A wealth on knowledge on all things Brit and horsey.

Not sure I agree with your last statement, I've a WWI dated 1902UP marked the the ALH. I imported it from Oz about 25 years ago. I know there are several (or were) mounted re-enactor unit in your part of the world. Have you checked with any of them?

Cheers.

[Fromelles]

Prior to the war, the numbers of '02 saddles in Australia would undoubtedly have numbered more than the newly introduction Pattern '10 ('12), however it must also be remembered that since prior to the introduction of Universal Training, in 1911, most mounted soldiers were required to provide their own harness and saddlery as there wasn't enough in the system.  

For an example, If we take the production numbers of saddles made by the CGHF from its opening in August 1911 till mid 1919, we can clearly see the decline in manufacturer of the '02 as it was superseded by the '10 - 

• 1911/12 - '02 - 3109
• 1912/13 - '02 - 1597 / '10 - 1989
• 1913/14 - '02 - 2575
• 1914/15 - '02 - 1801 / '10 - 6617
• 1915/16 - '10 - 8801
• 1916/17 - '10 - 3007
• 1917/18 - '10 - 218
• 1918/19 - '10 - 21

I would imagine the ratios would be similar with other saddlery manufacturers also. If the '10 saddles were such a failure it doesn't look like it affected production any. 

I've seen both types of Aussie issued (and marked) saddles, and have a very nice CGHF adjustable saddle myself. I am quite confident that Aussie '02 saddles are way fewer in number, but as with most things military, older pattern items were to be used up before issuing of newer items. 

Dan

[Chasemuseum]

For Australian use, the 2nd Boer War had had a key influence. As soon as horses went up country in that conflict, the quantity and quality of feed was inadequate. The horses then rapidly lost weight and changed shape. The UP1902 was very similar to the UP1890 (UP 1890 saddles were converted to UP1902 by the regimental artificer by shortening some components). The UP1902 was issued in several sizes (S, M & L) to match the horse. When horses rapidly lost weight in the field, the saddles no longer fitted well and the boards tendered to cause galling - open sores from rubbing that made the horse useless until it recovered. 

 

The UP1912 (1910) with swiveling boards eliminated this problem, as the saddle auto-adjusted to the horses condition.

 

The Australian military was always heavily influenced by the Boer War experience, which was largely confirmed by the experience of campaigning in the Middle-east during WW1. The British military although adopting the UP1912 after the Boer War, I think always viewed it as an unsatisfactory solution to poor horsemanship and not addressing the real problems of ensuring adequate feed and care to the animal, and having the riders conscious of the condition and needs of their mounts and ensuring that the correct equipment was supplied and used at all times.

 

My experience of the LH reenactor groups is that they tend to strong opinions and favour a particular saddle based on their bias rather than actual comparison of hours in the saddle with each type.