6th Hauraki KIA KAHA Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Very nice condition leather work. This is a reply to Grovetowns comment on leather dressings. The product I have used has worked very well no greasy stains of any kind, softens and rejuvenates the leather back to a very good condition, with no side effects or left over residue. Creme Essentielle by Melvo. I have done all my leather work with it. Other people I no who use have no complaints, just because you may have used bad product does not mean that good ones are not out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 These are really great post's/pictures, really facinating seeing the kit up close, I'll have to do some re-drawing methinks! soren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMAMarshall Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 To return to the question of whether P14 was used by the Indian army later than WW1: At an arms fair on Sunday I came across a second pattern ammo pouch (two tab closure) dated 1944, though cannot remember the makers details. It was stamped with an arrow but without the Indian I underneath, though as it was marked on the down strap there may not have been room. I have heard tell from a reliable source that a crate of these was dicovered some years ago, containing partly WW1 dated examples, and partly WW2 new made. On the other hand, I have never come across any other items of P14, other than ammo pouches, post WW1 dated, nor heard any rumours of such. On another point - has anyone come across a P14 lewis gun magazine pouch? I know someone who has seen one, but if they were made, I presume in incredibly small quantities. Did the P14 have anything akin to the P08 brace attachments? I have seen some photos, but nothing clear enough to be sure. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Did the P14 have anything akin to the P08 brace attachments? Richard Something akin indeed. To wear 14 pattern as 'pistol equipment' involved a holster and D pouch, both of which had integral buckles for attachment to the braces. The holster is illustrated below. The pouches with buckle intact are incredibly scarce - although one does find them with the strap-and-buckle removed. These were introduced with list of Changes 17177 in early 1915. The LoC states they are for use by pipers and range-takers; but obviously found their way to despatch riders, MG/LMG crews, tankies etc. List of Changes 17698 of December 24th 1915 introduces a loop for sliding onto the belt, with buckle attachment. These were intended for unarmed units. I have never seen one. Regards, Grovetown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Grovetown/Richard, I think I may add my double strap pouches to my pile of "suspect Stuff" Yes, the dated belt is on the piece behind buckle. Does not look like a repair, but some repairs are very expertly done. All, The rarest of all P14 pieces are those in the original SD color and not London Brown color. I've only ever been able to acquire a Head holder, frog and helve holder and one shoulder strap in SD color. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Joe Our mutual friend Wainf has a SD coloured single strap pouch that he got from me. It's made by Simmons, and is a 1915 item. Best wishes, Grovetown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 To all; Here's one of mine. I'd have to argue with you Grovetown, on your scarcity list! Whilst the belts & frogs are most common, followed by large packs, helve holders, pack straps, pouches, cross straps, braces, small packs, head carrier, I have found the WBC the hardest bit to find........At least a correct one......There are many altered from P39 leather, but originals seem elusive to me. Anyone have a spare one?!!! Chris P. P.s. I have a pair of pouches I've never been 100% sure about......I'm just debating whether to post pics & see them get ripped to shreds, or remain blissfully ignorant! How do you spot the wrong uns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 and a pistol set with 'wrong' braces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Chris Maybe I've been lucky on the bottle cradles, as have had least trouble with these (after belts and frogs) than the rest of it. Don't know about the pouches to which you refer, but the top buckles on your pouches shown look a bit square. Do they have - or have signs of having had - a roller? If so.... Regards, Grovetown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Hi G........yes, they have a roller..........now tell me if that's good or bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Not good I'm afraid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 I guess I knew that really. I've had them a long time.......15 years? but as I said.......never quite sure.........better to know! Why isn't there a 'reach for a stiff drink' smiley........ Thanks G. Chris P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Yes I know Chris - happens to us all (eg the pouch/ buckle illustrated above). How do you spot the wrong uns? Well now you know. Doesn't make it repro necessarily, but possibly WWII or similar or maybe Indian. Sometimes the roller is missing, so check that the thicknesses are consistent, and without an indent in one 'bar' to seat the roller in. Buckles should always be roller-less, and not that square at the corner - see the nice curves on your holster's one for comparison. Surprising when one first realises, but then obvious when you look after that. Regards, Grovetown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 G.. I think you are right on the Indian theme......they have a blurred stamp inside, which looks like others I have seen.......on WW2 indian made gear...... Now it adds up! Another addition to my wants list....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Cymro, One additional caveat. After using any leather dressing on your equipment you will not want to put that equipment in contact with your uniforms. I have seen instances were collectors have taken gear off of their displayed uniforms and to their horror, found darkened stains cause by the transfer of the oils in the dressing. Though the temptation is to put together a mannequin or torso display that you can admire, it is far better for you to do that, take some pictures and then disassemble the lot. Your leather gear, woolen items and pretty much everything else, for that matter, will be better conserved if they are stored properly, preferably flat, with buckles undone, etc. Best regards, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Chris P and Grovetown, By the way nice collections thanks for sharing the photo's Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Thanks Joe........I'm particularly proud of my Tankers helmet........Which I was fortunate enough to aquire early on, before I realised how hard to find they were........But in your vast bank of knowledge, can you pull out any info on them? Another chance for you to impress us all! I can find nothing myself......pictures are scarce, & facts non exsistent.......Thanks, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymro Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Chip - thanks for the advise on the staining - good to know! Regards J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Chris P and Grovetown, By the way nice collections thanks for sharing the photo's Joe Sweeney <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Joe - a pleasure. As for the collection, I've a funny feeling it's not a patch on yours. Chris: nice tankers helmet indeed. Regards, Grovetown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Grovetown; I think if we added our collections together, thought of a no, & doubled it, we'd still be short of Joe's collection. But are we downhearted! Well, only slightly.......... My Tankers helmet is named inside.....Hallin, or H Allin......C Bat.......very feint......frustratingly, I've gone thru all the permutations, but can find nothing. Any ideas? Chris P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Well there are two H Allens in the TC on the MIC... Allen TC Regards, Grovetown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMAMarshall Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 Chris, There is an excellent article concerning tankers helmets in a copy of Militaria Magazine (though it has only appeared in French). Afraid I cannot supply any more information at the moment as I am up at university and the books are at home. A pattern preceded the leather crash helmet made from felt, looks like an early miners hat. Has anyone ever came across an example? Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymro Posted 18 April , 2005 Share Posted 18 April , 2005 Dear 1914 leather experts, I've just received my set - the good news is that it's all original and always been together, the bad news is that its very dirty and the belt and one of the shoulder straps have just about had it. The pouches, the head carrier, the frog and helve carrier are ok and supple, but dirty, covered in the grime of 90+ years and old saddle soap - they're virtually black. Is there any way of getting this gunk off? Grovetown, Joe: a point for you. The pouches are stamped 'Beckworths Ltd C&M 1915 on the end of the strap. They are the single strap type and interestingly they both have a little loop on the top of the pouch to one side - any idea what this was for? I'll post pictures when I bring the camera home from work! Thanks Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 18 April , 2005 Share Posted 18 April , 2005 Jonathan There should be two of these loops - one on each side. They are to retain the ends of the belt attachment straps when buckled up. They can be seen in one of Joe's pictures on p.1 of the thread. For cleaning, I've always used a lint-free cloth to gently wipe away the muck with a light smear of meths. Regards, Grovetown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymro Posted 18 April , 2005 Share Posted 18 April , 2005 Thanks for that Grovetown - I'll post some photos tomorrow... J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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