Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Max Immelmann, Eagle of Lille


Adrian Roberts

Recommended Posts

I have just finished reading the book “Max Immelmann, Eagle of Lille”, written by his brother, Franz Immelmann. I found it on a second-hand bookstall at Biggin Hill Air Fair. There is no publisher’s date, but an inscription in the front shows that it was given to the first owner in 1936. At least half of the book consists of letters from Max Immelmann to his mother, which are fascinating first hand accounts.

Have any of you read this book and have you any comments on its trustworthiness? I have found that first hand accounts need to be taken with a pinch of salt, especially in matters of detail. But his account of his aerial victories seems to correlate to the list on theaerodrome.com, once you realise that he refers to BE2c’s as Bristols. And there is a wealth of anecdotes and details of the daily life of a Fliegertruppe that he wouldn’t have had reason to fib about.

He comes across as a decent, unassuming, bloke; quite surprised and unspoilt by the adulation that he received as he became famous. Like many of us, he loved aeroplanes, cars and motorbikes. Admittedly he was a vegetarian, non-smoking, teetotaller who went to bed by ten o’clock, so not exactly the life and soul of the party, but this seems to have been his mother’s influence rather than any ideological fanaticism. The only other negative I can find was a tendency to describe the bullet wounds to his victims in clinical detail, but I don’t think this was abnormal at the time - British newspapers in Victorian times were more likely to go into this sort of detail than they are now. And he did visit his victims in hospital when they survived.

My other reason for taking the book, or at least the hero-worship, with caution is Franz’s possible motives for writing it. The last sentence in the book reads:

“May [Max’s] statue…..prove an exhortation to young Germans to keep in memory the name of our first fighting airman and the pioneer of Germany’s honourable place in the air. It is the name borne by the machine which has carried our leader, Adolf Hitler, for years in his journeys across Germany: ‘Max Immelmann’!”

Some specific questions that some of you may be able to answer:

1] Is anything known about Franz Immelmann? He seems to have been an airman in WW1, and expresses bitterness about the result [understandably I suppose]. But he is not mentioned as an ace on the aerodrome.com. Was he later an ardent Nazi; when and how did he die?

2] Max talks of attacking a BE2c and the observer firing a machine gun back. I was under the impression that BE2c’s only carried a rifle for the observer. Is this wrong, or are either Max or Franz trying to hide the fact that the hero sometimes fired on virtually unarmed opponents? Certainly there were other times when he did come under machine-gun fire.

3] On September 11th 1915 he “forced down” [though this does not seem to have been counted in his total score] a “huge thing, with two engines and two machine guns”. I assumed this was a Caudron G.IV, but my information is that this type did not enter service until November ’15. Is this date wrong; or could there have been a prototype at the front before then; or was there another twin-engined type around at the time?

Adrian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adrian

Found this on a website which may provide an answer to your point number 2 although I don't know how accurate this is.

'Aerial combat in the winter of 1915-16 was primitive and personal. On a mission over Lille, pilot Captain O'Hara Wood and gunner/observer Ira Jones, flying a BE-2c, had been warned of Immelman's presence in that sctor. While gunner Jones had a Lewis gun, there were four different mounts for it; he had to lift the machine gun from one to the other when needed. A Fokker monoplane came after them, and quickly maneuvered into the BE-2c's blind spot: low and behind. Desperately, gunner Jones picked his Lewis gun up and fired it while holding it in his hands. The recoil of the heavy weapon and the violent movement of the airplane made him lose his grip, and it fell out of the plane. The two British fliers expected the worst, but the Fokker flew off, out of ammunition. Later Captain Wood informed Jones that their opponent had been the famous Max Immelmann, whom he had recognized by his skillful flying'.

Source: Acepilots.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I was under the impression that BE2c’s only carried a rifle for the observer."

"I assumed this was a Caudron G.IV, but my information is that this type did not enter service until November ’15. Is this date wrong?"

Adrian

As Will said, BE 2cs were equipped with mounting points for Lewis Guns to be fired by the observer. The photograph below shows a Lewis on the mount used to fire towards the tail - hoping that the pilot's head didn't get in the way! Behind the observer you can just see the end of a 'candlestick' mounting which enabled the Lewis to be fired forward, but at an angle so as to clear the propeller arc.

W M Lamberton's Reconnaisance and Bomber Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War says that the Caudron G.IV appeared in March 1915, and that the type was used as a day bomber from November. So perhaps they were in front line service in September. There were no French losses on 11 September.

Regards

Gareth

post-45-1111719548.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quoting fro Ira Jones' book "Tiger Squadron" about this incident.

"Now, there were four socket mountings on the B.E., intended to cover a wide field of fire. to get a shot at the enemy when his pilot was outmanoeuvred the observer had to keep changing the Lewis gun from one socket to another. If a plane got under your belly none of the sockets was any good. You just couldn't get at him. Seeing this blighter, and being unable to do anything about it was more than I could stand. I yanked the gun out of the rear socket. leaned over the right side of the cockpit and, holding the Lewis like a rifle let go with a burst.

I had reckoned , however, without the recoil of the gun and the effect of the slipstream on a insecurely held weapon. Before I had let off twenty rounds, the gun slipped out of my gloved hands. I shall never forget the look of horrified surprise on O'Hara Wood's face when he saw our only gun sailing down past the Fokker...........

The Hun must have seen the gun whizz past him. I shall never know whether he was one of the rare enemy sportsmen or merely stunned by surprise. To our astonishment, he broke off the action. We never saw him again.....

To my relief when O'Hara Wood got out of the plane he took one look at my woebegone face and burst out laughing."

"Taffy" Jones went one to become an Ace with 74 Sqdn flying SE 5as. He wrote two other books "King of Air Fighters", a biography of Mannock, and "An Air Fighters Scrapbook".

What an incredible story!

Diccon

In memory of my grandfather 30883 Cpl. Sydney Law D Coy 2 KOYLI KIA 14 April 1917 at Fayet. Commemorated at Thiepval

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Adrian,

I don't have an answer, rather a question:

Does it mention anything about a combat on or around 21st October 1915?

He shot down RFC pilot Frank T. Courtney on this date, but it went unconfirmed.

Also, how about 14th December 1915?

Apparently he shot down another on this date, but it is not in his victory list.

Also, only a combat between a BE2c and an EA on 11th September, according to 'The Sky Thier Battlefield' by Henshaw.

Thanks

Matt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your replies!

Will, Gareth, Diccon and Mattyboy:

I read Ira Jones' book years ago, and now you mention it, I remember the incident of him dropping the Lewis. But because of my preconceived idea that the BE2c did not carry a Lewis, I assumed he was in a BE2e. [Note that he doesn't say which model it was]. If the incident was in the winter of '15-16, it must have been a 2c, as the e didn't enter service until June 1916.

So where did I read that the BE2c only carried a rifle? Probably some non-specialist work intent on showing the British commanders in the worst possible light.

Caudron G.IV appeared in March 1915, and that the type was used as a day bomber from November. So perhaps they were in front line service in September. There were no French losses on 11 September.

I made a mistake here: 11th September is the date of his letter; the action would have been on 9th. To be fair, Immelman didn't claim the ?Caudron as a victory.

Mattyboy

Immelman says that "on October 21st 1915, I had a fight with a French monoplane. I forced him down and then he crashed, but unfortunately on his own territory".

It is worth noting that he sometimes appears confused as to what was English and what was French. The Kenneth Munson books show at least two British aircraft from early in the war with French-style roundels, red on the outside. [is this correct? In fact both were French types so maybe they didn't bother repainting them]

Frank T Courtney became a famous test pilot after the war, eventually for Convair in the States.

For the 14th December, he just says there was some "lively flying". 11th September appears to have been a quiet day, when he wrote the letter to his Mum mentioning the Caudron.

Adrian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adrian

There was a French casualty on 9 September: Lt Georges Perrin-Pelletier, a pilot, was wounded in action. However, as his unit was Escadrille MF22 he was more than likely flying a Farman, rather than a Caudron.

Aircraft bought by the BEF in France in the early years of the War were sometimes flown with French-style roundels. At first this was due to the British roundel pattern not yet being determined, and later it was while waiting for an opportunity to repaint the markings with RFC/RNAS insignia.

Regards

Gareth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...