Ordering WW1 medals (ie returned on medal index card)

[dravin]

I apologise if its a repeat (which I suspect it may well be) and its just for my own knowledge, I did search but did not find the answer 

The only WW1 medals that can be ordered from the medal office are those that were marked returned on a medal index card (as per GOV site) "You can only apply for World War 1 medals if the originals were returned"

But on the application form it states "Please note: Medals awarded prior to the Second World War can no longer be issued"

Is it no longer possible to order returned WW1 medals

 

[TullochArd]

That is my 

19 minutes ago, dravin said:

Is it no longer possible to order returned WW1 medals

That is also my understanding based on the attached HM Govt Briefing Note (Nov 2020)........ "Medals awarded before the Second World War can no longer be issued" 

How to apply for a military medal (parliament.uk)

Edited 10 July , 2022 by TullochArd

[Andrew Upton]

25 minutes ago, dravin said:

...But on the application form it states "Please note: Medals awarded prior to the Second World War can no longer be issued"

Is it no longer possible to order returned WW1 medals

6 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

That is also my understanding based on the attached HM Govt Briefing Note (Nov 2020)........ "Medals awarded before the Second World War can no longer be issued" 

How to apply for a military medal (parliament.uk)

The wording on the form has been at odds with the reality of the situation for a long time. See:

 

[TullochArd]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

The wording on the form has been at odds with the reality of the situation for a long time.  See:

Seen.  TVM.

[dravin]

Is that still the case now in 2022 though?

Forms used to carry the last time it was updated, sadly that does not seem to be the case these days

Unless something more up to date gets posted it looks like I will have to contact the medals office

 

5 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

The wording on the form has been at odds with the reality of the situation for a long time. See:

 

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, dravin said:

"Please note: Medals awarded prior to the Second World War can no longer be issued"

That wording has been there for a long long time and is just plain wrong.

We have had at least two successful applications documented on the forum in the last 12 months.

[dravin]

1 minute ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

That wording has been there for a long long time and is just plain wrong.

We have had at least two successful applications documented on the forum in the last 12 months.

Many thanks that is just what I wanted to hear, I did search but did not find

I was fairly sure it was a subject already covered

Much appreciated

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Yes it has been covered within the last year. I'm currently searching for the thread.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

This thread started with the same question in February 2021, resulting in a happy ending in June 2021, plus another poster applying in July 2021, receiving the medals in November 2021:

 

Edited 10 July , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[dravin]

23 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

This thread started with the same question in February 2021, resulting in a happy ending in June 2021:

 

Phew, there were a lot of replies to wade through but worth it all interesting stuff with good outcomes on some

I like to be informed of the facts, rather than just guesswork, I shall make some notes on the subject for reference

 

Much appreciate the input of all

 

PS the additional information of those who deserted and forfeited their medals was also new to me

 

Edited 10 July , 2022 by dravin

[dravin]

Just to complete this post, in case it helps others, I had emailed the medals office before the last replies came in, this is the response, clearly a canned response but it does give the details required (which is unusual in my experience with a canned response)

 

Thank you for your email.

 

WW1 medals were issued to all Service personnel below Officer level automatically after the war, or to their legal next of kin. Those Officers who remained in service after the war would have also received their medals automatically. Those who had left Service, or their next of kin, had to apply retrospectively for their medals, at which point a medal card would have been created.

Unfortunately, more than half of WWI Service records were destroyed in September 1940 when a German bombing raid struck the War Office repository. However, an estimated 2.8 million records survived the bombing or were reconstructed from war pension records. This means there is roughly a 40 per cent chance of finding a record of a soldier who was discharged between 1914 and 1920. The surviving WW1 Service records, including any medal cards, are now held at the National Archive and available to the public. Here is a link to the website: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Due to the loss of Service records the MOD Medal Office only issues WW1 medals on production of a medal index card, or for ship based RN medal rolls, that shows the original medals were returned undelivered. If the original medals were returned and the card or roll reflects this, the legal next of kin (the eldest closest surviving relative) may submit a medal application form (downloadable here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/applying-for-medals) to this office with a copy of the medal card showing the medals issued and that they were returned to the MOD.

If a medal card or medal roll exists but does not show that the medals were returned unissued, then your only option would be to purchase replicas from a medal production company or from a reputable medal dealer. For commercial reasons we are not able to provide any recommendations. However, the Royal British Legion may be able to suggest reputable medal dealers, although their list may not be exhaustive and you may find others via an internet search.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

17 minutes ago, dravin said:

Just to complete this post, in case it helps others

Thanks for that dravin, it confirms that unissued or returned medals can still be claimed.
It might be a good idea if we were to draw their attention to the incorrect fact that we discussed yesterday ( "Medals awarded before the Second World War can no longer be issued...), which still appears as gospel in the House of Commons Library paper entitled "How to apply for a military medal."

Edited 11 July , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[dravin]

7 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Thanks for that dravin, it confirms that unissued or returned medals can still be claimed.
It might be a good idea if we were to draw their attention to the incorrect fact that we discussed yesterday ( "Medals awarded before the Second World War can no longer be issued"), which still appears as gospel in the House of Commons Library paper entitled "How to apply for a military medal."

As I read it, only medals that were issued and returned, marked on medal index card or medal rolls as such, can be claimed, rather than any unissued (or is that what you meant?)

I did mention the misleading wording on the House of Commons paper, which is also on the medal application form, perhaps its by design to dissuade many from applying

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

OK, I see they say specifically that only medals issued and returned can be issued.

That's a shame, as I'm sure there must have been thousands of officers who never claimed their medals, and it seems that those claims are lost forever.

[dravin]

23 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

OK, I see they say specifically that only medals issued and returned can be issued.

That's a shame, as I'm sure there must have been thousands of officers who never claimed their medals, and it seems that those claims are lost forever.

Yes it is a shame given the service these men gave and many would have lost their lives