PILL BOX THE BARNOCLE

[Lorre]

Hi All,

Buisy with a paper of Tyne Cot Cemetery and surroundings.

Always heard that the left bunker was called 14 Indigo and the right 15 Irksome.

But now crossed a map where the left bunker was called The Barnocle.

Can anybody set me straight please?

[TullochArd]

....... and also mentioned in Peter Oldham’s book 'Pill Boxes on the Western Front' as named, after their capture, Irksome and Barnacle.

That said, many non military signs, labels and markers were made in the 1920's/1930's to assist pilgrims and visitors - few seem to have survived except in postcards or photos. 

One pill box was labelled at some point 'X TYNE COTT (?)' (photo below) and another, in a spookily similar style, as '14 INDIGO'.  '14 INDIGO' is discussed at length and several potential sources are offered for further research at this link ........and with a photo.

Tyne cot bunker marked indigo PICTURE ADDED! - Cemeteries and memorials - The Great War (1914-1918) Forum (greatwarforum.org)

 

Edited 8 July , 2022 by TullochArd
....... link amended

[Lorre]

Woud barnacle be a Germany name then?

[TullochArd]

4 hours ago, Lorre said:

Woud barnacle be a Germany name then?

No.  You will also see there are four major PBs in this area on the British map you provided. The CWGC historical notes record four major PBs within Tyne Cot Cemetery today but there would appear to be other supporting structures dotted about.  The picture below (from the associated post shows) shows '14 INDIGO' in relation to the Cross of Sacrifice which uses the bigger PB as it's base.

Edited 8 July , 2022 by TullochArd

[TullochArd]

....... have a look at this other GWF thread .........

Tyne Cot Cemetery blockhouses - Cemeteries and memorials - The Great War (1914-1918) Forum (greatwarforum.org)

To me it looks like '14 INDIGO' may be the one in the area of cemetery Block 41 on the attached plan.

Edited 8 July , 2022 by TullochArd

[mebu]

Lorre, if you are researching or writing about Tyne Cot there is an informative article "The Pill Boxes of Tyne Cot" by Peter Oldham in Stand To!, the journal of the WFA, in October 2020. Some info on the names, might be useful. 

[Lorre]

9 hours ago, mebu said:

Lorre, if you are researching or writing about Tyne Cot there is an informative article "The Pill Boxes of Tyne Cot" by Peter Oldham in Stand To!, the journal of the WFA, in October 2020. Some info on the names, might be useful. 

Is this a magazine or a book?

[jay dubaya]

2 hours ago, Lorre said:

Is this a magazine or a book?

It’s a magazine produced for members of the WFA, I may have a copy lurking  somewhere, will post later if I can find it.

[Lorre]

5 minutes ago, jay dubaya said:

It’s a magazine produced for members of the WFA, I may have a copy lurking  somewhere, will post later if I can find it.

Very much Appreciated!

[jay dubaya]

[Lorre]

Thank You Jay!

Have the book Pill boxes on the Western front from Peter Oldham,

but not much info to find there.

[Lorre]

Should i can order a copy of that anywhere?

 

[mebu]

It is the periodical magazine of the Western Front Association, for members.

Attached is (hopefully) a more legible copy.

next 2 pages

[mebu]

page 2 again

sorry still upside down

[Lorre]

1 hour ago, mebu said:

Attached is (hopefully) a more legible copy.

Mebu,

Thank You very much!

 

[Lorre]

@TullochArd, mebu and jay dubaya

Thank You very much for helping me out!

Learned something new here.

Edited 9 July , 2022 by Lorre

[Lorre]

So it is it safe to asume dat the left pill box is called The barnacle and the right Irksome?

And the name Tyne Cot is not from Tyne Cottage but named after the river Tyne?

[jay dubaya]

28 minutes ago, Lorre said:

And the name Tyne Cot is not from Tyne Cottage but named after the river Tyne?

I believe the name comes from the pill boxes resembling typical workers cottages on Tyneside. 

[Lorre]

8 minutes ago, jay dubaya said:

I believe the name comes from the pill boxes resembling typical workers cottages on Tyneside. 

That's a quote out The pill boxes of Tyne Cot by Peter Oldham; 

The name “Tyne Cot” was for a long time believed to be given by Northumberland troops, as being reminiscent of houses back home, which were actually no different to houses anywhere else in England. The buildings on site also were no different to any others in the region. Most historians today accept that this is incorrect, and the River Tyne, along with Thames, Tiber, Seine, Marne, etc, in the immediate vicinity is the true source of the name.

[AOK4]

1 hour ago, Lorre said:

That's a quote out The pill boxes of Tyne Cot by Peter Oldham; 

The name “Tyne Cot” was for a long time believed to be given by Northumberland troops, as being reminiscent of houses back home, which were actually no different to houses anywhere else in England. The buildings on site also were no different to any others in the region. Most historians today accept that this is incorrect, and the River Tyne, along with Thames, Tiber, Seine, Marne, etc, in the immediate vicinity is the true source of the name.

My opinion as well.

[jay dubaya]

Indeed, it does make more logical sense. 

[Lorre]

1 hour ago, AOK4 said:

My opinion as well.

So Jan,

If someone came to You and asked You, What's the story after The name?

You would tell them, its named after the river Tyne?

It's just I've always heard the story about the cottages, even by experienced guides.

[Lorre]

Another (maybe) dumb question, but is this or isn't it the bunker under the cross of sacrifice?

It says one of the pill boxes of the tyne cot group, but outside the cemetery?

If You surch the net lots of people are saying that this is the bunker where the cross was build on.

[AOK4]

2 hours ago, Lorre said:

So Jan,

If someone came to You and asked You, What's the story after The name?

You would tell them, its named after the river Tyne?

It's just I've always heard the story about the cottages, even by experienced guides.

I have written an article for the Belgian WFA about names on trench maps. A lot of the names in the area are indeed named after rivers: Seine, Marne etc. The name Tyne Cot appears before the bunkers were even there if I'm not mistaken.

Don't believe guides too much, they often just tell stories they have heard before. Archival research is everything!

 

[mebu]

Lorre, many people keep repeating information which is not always correct.

The pillbox under the Cross of Sacrifice is not south of Tyne Cot.

With official records missing or often confusing, sometimes some interpretation is required. 

Notice that the author above says "probably" and "likely" - a best guess after much research and deliberation. Not just repeating other statements, which would be very easy.