Lt. Col. Algernon Henry DUMARESQ, R.E., Inspector of Electric Lights

[Matlock1418]

On 19/11/2022 at 09:04, PaulC78 said:

I'm sure I have enquiries made six months ago that never got a response!

CWGC wheels do seem to grind very slowly - took them three months to add a single/missing digit to another soldier's details!  But they got there in the end. 

But what chance for a non-comm case? ... In hope for swiftness, and commemoration, for AHD!!

Meantime, though we always knew his burial plot - thanks to the very kind efforts of another member, I'm now starting to get photos of his civvy grave at Kensall Green (All Souls).

M

Edited 25 November , 2022 by Matlock1418
photo ref

[Lynne Dumaresq]

I signed up today because Algernon is my grandfathers brother. Not sure how to use this site or what info you still need but please make contact  if I can help. He was decorated by the French with their Croix de Guerre for his work in taking electricity to the trenches and was indeed unmarried

sincerely
lynne. dumaresq

[Matlock1418]

58 minutes ago, Lynne Dumaresq said:

I signed up today because Algernon is my grandfathers brother. Not sure how to use this site or what info you still need but please make contact  if I can help. He was decorated by the French with their Croix de Guerre for his work in taking electricity to the trenches and was indeed unmarried

sincerely
lynne. dumaresq

Lynne,

Welcome to GWF and especially for replying to my thread - thank you.

The primary question is why the CWGC seem to have put for Lt Col A H DUMARESQ his grave/him down as "Not a war grave" [actually having struck-through an earlier entry] and have not commemorated him. ???

Can perhaps understand that he may be buried in a private grave [I have a photo of it thanks to another member] but as he seemed to be a serving officer at the time of his death, 31 May 1917, he should be eligible for commemoration by CWGC.

As it stands a case has quite recently been put to the CWGC and the Joint Casualty and Compassionate Centre/Army and they will be reviewing sometime - we await their explanation and decision [but likely won't be a quick decision]

Meantime = Can you please offer any clarification as to his status as a RE officer at the date of his death, 31 May 1917? [or perhaps he was not??] - this seems the crux of the matter.

Other info most welcome.

In hope ...

M

Edited 28 November , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Lynne Dumaresq]

It would seem as if Algernon is buried in the same plot as my grandfather at Kensal Green 44590( a family plot ?)He died in I914. Robert Hare Fitzroy Dumaresq

We have recently requested the cemetery authorities to clear the plot for us as when I visited it was completely  inaccessible.They said it might take a while but will be done.Photo to follow

[Matlock1418]

10 hours ago, Lynne Dumaresq said:

It would seem as if Algernon is buried in the same plot as my grandfather at Kensal Green 44590( a family plot ?)He died in I914. Robert Hare Fitzroy Dumaresq

We have recently requested the cemetery authorities to clear the plot for us as when I visited it was completely  inaccessible.They said it might take a while but will be done.Photo to follow

Lynne,

Thanks for getting back.  So handy to have your knowledge.  

It seems the grave plot is now accessible but quite difficult to read the stone at present.  However you seem to have cleared up one thing - the name "Robert", already recently spotted but unclearly seen on the rather mossy stone. 

All such info is gratefully received.  A photo(s) would be great. 

M

Edited 29 November , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

CWGC have today acknowledged AHD as an active Non-Commemoration Case Number 11820 

M

[Lynne Dumaresq]

Not sure how to send photo.Can I email it somewhere .lynne

[Michelle Young]

Does this help Lynn? 

[Matlock1418]

On 30/11/2022 at 14:48, Lynne Dumaresq said:

Not sure how to send photo.Can I email it somewhere .lynne

You can probably now either post in this thread as Michelle has indicated or use a Private Message to/between us.

TIA.

M

[PaulC78]

Not sure if you got photos of the grave or not, but there are now some on Find-a-Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/244167702/algernon-henry-dumaresq

[Matlock1418]

17 minutes ago, PaulC78 said:

Not sure if you got photos of the grave or not, but there are now some on Find-a-Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/244167702/algernon-henry-dumaresq

Paul, Thank you for your heads-up on these photos.  I don't know who posted them.

Lt Col DUMARESQ is still with CWGC for consideration for commemoration, but expecting a wait anyway.

M

Edited 25 August , 2023 by Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

On 29/11/2022 at 12:59, Matlock1418 said:

CWGC have today acknowledged AHD as an active Non-Commemoration Case Number 11820 

Apologies to one and all for the delay in posting again - I've been exploring other avenues to progress the case

From submission on 18 Nov 2022 and then CWGC's 29 Nov 2022 reply/my post above ... One year later/on 30 Nov 2023 CWGC replied to me as follows:

"We have now received an adjudication from the military service authorities, regarding your Non-Commemoration submission (NC 11820) for Lt Col A. H. Dumaresq of the Royal Engineers.
The adjudication ruling was that this individual does not qualify for commemoration as a Commonwealth war casualty - concluding that the historic categorisation of this officer as 'Not a War Grave' will remain upheld, rather than be overturned. Acknowledging that whilst the reasoning behind that original designation remained unclear, it still constituted an assessment and subsequent decision made by the relevant authorities at the time. Furthermore, a change could risk contradicting wishes originally expressed by the individual's direct next-of-kin.
This was an unusual case, in the sense of not being solely about determining eligibility for commemoration, as per the Commission's specific criteria - but rather the issue of not disregarding a contemporary evidence source, which had instructed not treating Lt Col Dumaresq as a Commonwealth war casualty. 
I appreciate that this outcome may represent a disappointment, but hope that the above explanation offers insight as to the final decision. 
Regards,
James

Dr James Wallis
Commemorations Policy Manager"

CWGC and JCCC accept that this officer meets the standard criteria for commemoration as a Death in Service, but ...

I'll be frank I do not think this is a satisfactory outcome and meantime I have been continuing to try and chase the case since that reply arrived.  Dr Wallis/CWGC has failed to respond to my several further enquiries. Most recently pursuing a successful FOI request of JCCC, to try to understand the situation and try to address the crux of this case, seemingly for CWGC the note on the GRRF of "Not a War Grave". I shall continue to be vociferous, wherever necessary.  

I have contrary comments about this reply & outcome and have garnered further information on how the case has been handled that I may yet share, but not here and now ... This thread is about getting Lt-Col DUMARESQ's deserved commemoration.

What I really need is for somebody/anybody to please be able to provide:

• genuine evidence as to the reason as to why that "Not a War Grave" ended up on the GRRF [CWGC haven't found it, nor JCCC - I suspect it is not available and its absence seems a mixed blessing], and/or
• reasons to commemorate and/or examples that this is an unusual result which flys in the face of other historic and relatively recent decisions to commemorate similar such original "Not a War Grave" GRRF entries [I have some examples that I think CWGC would be reluctant to now reverse - think of the adverse opinion!], or
• CWGC to change their mind and commemorate this officer without further delay - a Book of Remembrance entry and then web recognition would seem to suffice since he has a private grave and viable memorial stone.

I feel it is likely relatives would appreciate his commemoration.

Thanks for reading/contributing to this thread - In hope GWF can further help please.

M

Edited 29 February by Matlock1418
tweak

[8055Bell]

Hi M,

Is there evidence he had retired in the service file?

Did the heart condition commence in service?

Tim

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, 8055Bell said:

Is there evidence he had retired in the service file?

Did the heart condition commence in service?

Hi Tim, Nice to hear from you.

No to both [though I, and it seems others, don't know the full medical start/details of his condition], all the evidence points to death in service in RE [whilst employed in the in WO - certainly not towards him being retired] - and both CWGC and JCCC accept that DiS situation.

It's the unexplained strike of the GRRF and "Not a war grave" and "Family grave" annotations that seem to sway CWGC

I'm wondering the mechanism to get this more independently appealed/reviewed.

M

Edited 3 March by Matlock1418
typo

[8055Bell]

If the man died in service CWGC has an obligation to commemorate under the Royal Charter.  I can see that the notation indicates that someone didn't accept this plot to be a War Grave but the obligation remains.  All Soul's Cemetery has a screen wall and the obvious alternative solution is to inscribe his name there.

I don't know of any appeal process.  Some of my recent refusals are very difficult to digest. I just welcome the acceptances now.