Lt. Col. Algernon Henry DUMARESQ, R.E., Inspector of Electric Lights

[Matlock1418]

The recent joining of our new member @Erasmus and the posting of a link to one of his The Inconvenient Dead blog articles lead me further to find this: Not worthy? The dis-remembered in Britain’s hidden war graves

https://inconvenientdead.wordpress.com/2018/11/06/not-worthy-britains-hidden-war-graves

Within it is mention of the non-commemoration by CWGC in Kensall Green [Kensal Green (All Souls') Cemetery?  Or was it Kensal Green (St Mary's) Roman Catholic Cemetery?] of Lt. Col. Algernon Henry DUMARESQ, R.E. who died in 1917, reportedly from a heart attack. - He was later struck off as “not a war grave” from schedule 33.

From Free BMD: Deaths Jun 1917  Dumaresq Algernon H 47 St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a  602

He certainly seems to have his fair share of London Gazette entries:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/notice?text="Algernon+henry+Dumaresq"&categorycode-all=all&noticetypes=&location-postcode-1=&location-distance-1=1&location-local-authority-1=&numberOfLocationSearches=1&start-publish-date=01%2F01%2F1892&end-publish-date=&edition=&london-issue=&edinburgh-issue=&belfast-issue=&sort-by=oldest-date&results-page-size=10

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/notice?text="algernon+h+dumaresq"&categorycode-all=all&noticetypes=&location-postcode-1=&location-distance-1=1&location-local-authority-1=&numberOfLocationSearches=1&start-publish-date=01%2F01%2F1892&end-publish-date=&edition=&london-issue=&edinburgh-issue=&belfast-issue=&sort-by=oldest-date&results-page-size=10

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/notice?text="algernon+h+dumaresq"&categorycode-all=all&noticetypes=&location-postcode-1=&location-distance-1=1&location-local-authority-1=&numberOfLocationSearches=1&start-publish-date=01%2F01%2F1892&end-publish-date=&edition=&london-issue=&edinburgh-issue=&belfast-issue=&sort-by=oldest-date&results-page-size=10

Don't think I have seen a relinquishment of his commission before his death = still serving [?]

This is a long multi-part downloadable record apparently containing his Statement of Services details at TNA, Kew.  WO 25/3917/136 [seems to be record/page 136 - It's in part 04 = WO-25-3917_04]

 

 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13334024

No sign of relinquishing his commission.

This is an obituary for the Institution of Electrical Engineers [IEE], with photo:

https://ietarchivesww1.wordpress.com/2017/06/05/97th-iee-member-to-fall-in-world-war-1-lieutenant-colonel-a-h-dumaresq

Seems to suggest he died 31 May 1917 and was working at the War Office - perhaps the latter a reason why he wasn't commemorated [or perhaps became dis-remembered] ??

But if he was still serving at time of death ... Intriguing.

Of course we are missing some key docs, like an especially important Death Certificate and it would be good to see a Grave Registration Report Form and that Schedule 33, but ...

What do our members think?  Should he be commemorated at CWGC?

M

Edit: His parents:

 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13334024

From FreeBMD:

Deaths Dec 1898  Dumaresq     Henry W H D     63     Bideford     5b    308   [apparently Henry William Hart-Davis Dumaresq according to IEE]

Deaths Mar 1927  Dumaresq     Letitia L             80     St.Thomas  5b    88     [Possibly Louisa according to IEE]

I've not found a marriage for him - this would appear to match his IEE obituary which gives him as unmarried.

[PRC]

No mention at all in the probate calendar of rank and whether he was serving.

Image courtesy https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk

The May 1917 British Army Monthly List has three entries for him.

Column 11. War Office.
Department of the Master-General of the Ordnance.
Inspector of Electric Lights. Lieutenant Colonel Algernon Henry Edit in light of subsequent posts  - actually A.H Dumaresq, Royal Engineers, with seniority from the 6th September 1912.
(Other entries on the same page make reference to individuals being retired, on retired paid or unpaid. None of those is stated against Algernon. )
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104610224

Next up is Column 788 Royal Engineers. It's note clear from the specific page, but from surrounding pages it looks like the individuals concerned have been "Removed from the Corps but still on the Active List."
That has Lieutenant Colonel A.H. Dumaresq (F) Inspector of Electric Lights with seniority from the 31st December 1916. I don't have a clue what the (F) stands for. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104615360

Finally is column 2500, which is the Royal Engineers Committee, of which Lt. Col. A.H. Dumaresq appears to be the senior member. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104631056

I don't know if there might be something in this article that appeared in the edition of the Western Morning News dated June 6, 1917

Image courtesy FindMyPast.

Cheers,
Peter

[PaulC78]

4 minutes ago, PRC said:

I don't know if there might be something in this article that appeared in the edition of the Western Morning News dated June 6, 1917

Not sure if this helps or not:

I don't see a TNA record in WO 339 or WO 374.

[PaulC78]

2 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

Well, I hope it is- they have ARTHUR, not ALGERNON

Ah-ha, possibly. Probably worth a look at any rate.

[PRC]

8 hours ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

Well, I hope it is- they have ARTHUR, not ALGERNON

I've edited my previous post to make it clear that all the references in the May 1917 British Army Monthly List are to an A. H. Dumaresq, so that source is silent on whether he is Arthur or Algernon. However as the newspaper report of the death of A.H. Dumaresq has him as the Inspector of Electric Lights it is clear that the man who died is the same person in at least two of the appearances for him as that role is specifically mentioned.

There is no other A.H. Dumaresq listed in the index.

The newspaper report has him born in 1870 and connects his mother with Bideford, North Devon.

No obvious birth in England & Wales for either an Algernon or Arthur in that period, nor does he turn up in the register of overseas armed forces births as far as I can see. There is a birth of an Algernon Henry Dumaresq which was registered in the Limerick District in 1870. The registrars handwriting is difficult to make out, particularly with regard to the day and month of birth, but it was registered in July 1870.

Image courtesy: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03329/2220304.pdf

Looks like the father was a Captain Henry William ??? ??? Damaresq, Royal Engineers.

The 20 year old Algernon Henry Dumaresq, born Ireland, pops up on the 1891 Census of England & Wales as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Royal Engineers and stationed at the Royal Engineers Barracks at Brompton, Gillingham, Kent.

There is an Arthur H. Dumaresq who turns up on the 1871 & 1901 Censuses of England & Wales, born Jersey circa 1852/53. On the later one, aged 49 and a "boarder" in a "Licensed Lunatic Asylum", he is recorded as a Retired Army Captain. Of course he may have made a recovery and a job found for him as the War Office during the Great War, but seems unlikely.

I'm going with the good old clerical c**k up theory for why the WO339 records of A.H. Dumaresq are shown as Arthur rather than Algernon

Cheers,
Peter

[Matlock1418]

Thank you very much guys @PRC @PaulC78 @ALAN MCMAHON - lots of new evidence and detail coming to light about this officer. 

Shame we haven't [yet?] nailed the situation around the time of his death.  We've still got some work to do but I'm still ever optimistic.

Having looked for it ,and miserably missed it I, I especially like the finding of that WO 339/109793 Service Papers file [this is not to show any particular favoritism to the those who have done such great work  - thank you all.]

The genealogical details [his and his parentage etc.] all seem to stack up and with the other evidence I think I will go for the prevailing theory on the naming of that WO 339/109793 Service Papers file and thus continue to go for Algernon rather than Arthur.

For the next step next week I think I will ask TNA to check the naming of that file to confirm it is Algernon Henry DUMARESQ.  We let you know if what I find out!

Assuming it is our officer's, certainly thereafter that file at Kew looks like it needs a perusal for the end of his careeer - unfortunately  don't have any likely access = I wonder if anyone else might posssibly have the opportunity to look at it and report back please ??

In hope ...

M

[PRC]

16 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Within it is mention of the non-commemoration by CWGC in Kensall Green [Kensal Green (All Souls') Cemetery?  Or was it Kensal Green (St Mary's) Roman Catholic Cemetery?] of Lt. Col. Algernon Henry DUMARESQ, R.E. who died in 1917, reportedly from a heart attack. - He was later struck off as “not a war grave” from schedule 33.

Is it possible that the CWGC hold a record for him stating why he was not considered a War Grave? Might have seemed appropriate at the time for that decision to be made, but merely getting the file re-looked at to answer your query, (if it exists), may prompt CWGC to realise that his case needs to be reconsidered.

That could then save a lot of work on your part plus expense - visits to Kew and purchase of a death certificate avoided spring to mind.

Kensal Green (St Mary's) Roman Catholic Cemetery has 296 Great War era deaths listed.
Kensall Green [Kensal Green (All Souls') Cemetery has 487 Great War era death listed.

Both likely to have a Schedule 33.

Cheers,
Peter

Edit -  cross posted with @ALAN MCMAHON

Edited 2 July , 2022 by PRC

[Matlock1418]

40 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

I think this may have to be tackled from the other end-  by contacting CWGC  and asking why he is not commemorated.

36 minutes ago, PRC said:

Is it possible that the CWGC hold a record for him stating why he was not considered a War Grave?

Thanks again guys [and for your other thoughts/observations] = this CWGC route has been lurking in the back of my mind - but tbh was a bit doubtful as to whether CWGC might/could actually reveal anything meaningful.

I have previously unsuccessfully asked about possible earlier decisions - so again for another historic decision I would again be very pessimistic. [CWGC do not release their full deliberations/explanations on recent decisions to not commemorate either!]

However an e-mail to CWGC is certainly far cheaper than a visit to Kew and a DC.

Will give it a go and report back.

40 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

There are 3 different cemeteries at Kensal Green, the third being  West London Crematorium.  My money is on the RC one.   The registers for  Kensal Green appear to have been scanned and listed and are - I think-available through a subscription site, Deceased Online.

     It is just possible that he,physically, is not at Kensal Green-  the enxt best bet seems to be the family plot at St. Saviour's, Jersey.

Would be handy if @Erasmus could please comment when he, hopefully, next returns to GWF [I'm giving him time - so we must be patient]

M

Edited 2 July , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

@Erasmus has very kindly replied in another thread of mine, above, on the case of Lt. Col. Algernon Henry DUMARESQ, R.E.

For a degree of more 'completeness' for this officer's own thread I reproduce his response here with very many thanks.

Erasmus writes:

"I have gone back to look through my notes

Col Dumaresq is properly documented in the Army Lists (in the Dept of the Master-General of the Ordanance) The French government recognised his work with a Croix d'Officier. I spent a fair bit of time at Kew going through disremembered officers records - this one had a very sad correspondence. I see it was actually his widowed mother (not his wife) who was dependant on him and her solicitor wrote extensively to the war office,  trying to get a gratuity for her living expenses.  She never did and died in 1927 before anything was sorted out. She did buy a private grave and memorial for him though.

WO 25/3917/136 Algernon Henry Dumaresq :  Next of kin: father: Col HWH Dumaresq late RE, of Ingleton, Beulah Hill, Mother Mrs LL Dumaresq of Bideford, Devon, from 9/10/1913

It was clear from that family correspondence that he died of a heart attack after he'd been recalled to service. Also according to "Communications and British Operations on the Western Front, 1914–1918" by  Brian N.Hall, University of Salford, published by Cambridge University Press:

"Throughout the war, responsibility for the supply of signal stores rested with FW9, a branch of the Director of Fortifications and Works. Headed by Major Algernon Dumaresq, the chief electrical engineer, and with the help of just two officers and six OR in August 1914, FW9 grew to comprise 12 officers and 24 subordinates by the end of the war. However the pressure of the job took its toll on Dumaresq, who died suddenly in his office in May 1917. His successor, Lt-Col Edwin Seaman, also succumbed to a similar fate, dying of a stroke in May 1919."

[Seaman is recorded as a war grave, and is also buried at Kensal Green Cemetery]

There is a fuller account of his career and death in service in the IET archives. Although I'm a Trustee at Kensal Green where he's buried, I dont seem to have a picture of his grave to hand. But if the CWGC doesn't mind me displaying the GRR form,  here he is - or rather, isn't"

Particular thanks for this copy of the I/CWGC's GRRF with its struck-through entry - seems to identify his grave location as Plot 43, Grave 44590, Kensal Green (All Souls') Cemetery

I do hope that details of his burial entry can someday/somehow be posted on here please.

I also hope that someday somebody will be able to produce a photo of his grave/headstone/memorial and post it on here please.

Thanks in anticipation.

M

[ss002d6252]

On 01/07/2022 at 23:16, PRC said:

That has Lieutenant Colonel A.H. Dumaresq (F) Inspector of Electric Lights with seniority from the 31st December 1916. I don't have a clue what the (F) stands for. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104615360

 

Craig

[Matlock1418]

22 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

On 01/07/2022 at 23:16, PRC said:

That has Lieutenant Colonel A.H. Dumaresq (F) Inspector of Electric Lights with seniority from the 31st December 1916. I don't have a clue what the (F) stands for. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104615360

Craig, Thanks for this - I knew I'd seen a glossary but couldn't find it amongst all my stuff [note to self - more/better filing/organisation required!]. 

f = Passed Firemasters' Class, Ordnance College - now we know. Have been corrected - see below

M

Edited 6 July , 2022 by Matlock1418
strike

[PRC]

9 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Craig, Thanks for this - I knew I'd seen a glossary but couldn't find it amongst all my stuff [note to self - more/better filing/organisation required!]. 

f = Passed Firemasters' Class, Ordnance College - now we know.

M

I thinks its (F) - Signifies that the Officer's name appears in the "Foreign Orders" list, published quarterly.

(Mind you not at all sure what that means - I assume it probably an award by another government. I don't know if it turns up in every third Monthly List, or just the Quarterly Army Lists).

Cheers,
Peter

[Matlock1418]

9 hours ago, PRC said:

I thinks its (F) - Signifies that the Officer's name appears in the "Foreign Orders" list, published quarterly.

I think you are right  - thanks for your correction - I missed the [F] square brackets entry in the glossary 

M

.

[Matlock1418]

On 02/07/2022 at 01:32, ALAN MCMAHON said:

 

Well, I hope it is- they have ARTHUR, not ALGERNON

A recent enquiry of TNA to check the description of his WO 339/109793 document and it has quietly changed to Lieutenant Colonel Algernon Henry DUMARESQ Royal Engineers.  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1163614

M

[Matlock1418]

34 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

TNA and CWGC do keep an eye  on things on this forum- I had noticed that something was quietly corrected recently.   Fame at last.......

Sadly I'm not wholly sure about the fame of GWF bringing such results [though it generally deserves it, and more recognition from the likes of the above organisations], but something/a quiet word in their ears at TNA appears to have been effective in this case! 

= I encourage all existing [and eventually future] GWF members to let TNA know of potential indexing/transcription errors for their Discovery records - for the benefit of future enquirers, not least by existing and future GWF members!

M

[Matlock1418]

CWGC have been contacted and replied - cannot provide any explanation for "Not a War Grave" and have, provisionally, not ruled out his potential eligibility and future commemoration - subject to a full case non-comm case submission and review.  I am presently working up a non-comm submission case for presentation. 

I have sought a GWF Documents - Requests and Offers member look-up of Service Papers please ...

 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1163614 - I do hope someone can assist with this and let me know.

Thanks.

M

Edited 5 October , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

On 04/07/2022 at 21:29, Matlock1418 said:

I do hope that details of his burial entry can someday/somehow be posted on here please.

Still hoping that somebody may be able to assist with this please.

On 04/07/2022 at 21:29, Matlock1418 said:

I also hope that someday somebody will be able to produce a photo of his grave/headstone/memorial and post it on here please.

Likewise please - still hoping.

Perhaps @Erasmus ??

PDF Death Certificate is currently electronically 'in the post' from GRO so should be delivered in the next few days - awaited keenly.

M

Edited 5 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
DC

[PaulC78]

I've added him to Find-a-Grave and requested a photo: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/244167702/algernon-henry-dumaresq

I'm planning a trip to London and TNA in early December (unless the rail strikes drag on and scupper my plans), so I can look him up then if no-one else can do it earlier.

[Matlock1418]

3 minutes ago, PaulC78 said:

I've added him to Find-a-Grave and requested a photo: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/244167702/algernon-henry-dumaresq

I'm planning a trip to London and TNA in early December (unless the rail strikes drag on and scupper my plans), so I can look him up then if no-one else can do it earlier.

Thank you for your kind action and splendid offer - yes please, if not covered earlier - will obviously keep the thread advised [glad you are now following]

M

[Matlock1418]

On 05/10/2022 at 12:38, PaulC78 said:

I'm planning a trip to London and TNA in early December (unless the rail strikes drag on and scupper my plans), so I can look him up then if no-one else can do it earlier.

Once again thanks for your offer - another GWF member has visited on my behalf.  And many, many thanks to them too - I'm still digesting the findings.

On 05/10/2022 at 11:47, Matlock1418 said:

PDF Death Certificate is currently electronically 'in the post' from GRO so should be delivered in the next few days - awaited keenly.

It arrived.

Image thanks to GRO

"Colonel, Royal Engineers"

Nothing about being 'Retired' on there - but of course the habit of the day was to still use such rank titles after retirement [And technically I think he was a Lt-Colonel]

Anyone know anything about 7 Palace Mansions, Palace Street?  Private residence [which it at first rather appears to me to be] or War Office office?

M

[pierssc]

What is now Audley House was Palace Mansions, Palace Street.  https://goo.gl/maps/Xbj1Pi92cXmLmwUz9 .  In 1917 a mansion block, it is now offices.  The 1915 Post Office Directory (via Ancestry) records the occupier of No.7 Palace Mansions as Major A.H. Dumaresq.  Directory image courtesy of Ancestry

 

 

A 1950 OS Map seen via the National Library of Scotland confirms the directory information in that it fronted Palace Street, on the corner of Palace Street and Stafford Place

Not sure if this link will work: https://maps.nls.uk/view/102903199

 

[Matlock1418]

10 hours ago, pierssc said:

What is now Audley House was Palace Mansions, Palace Street.  https://goo.gl/maps/Xbj1Pi92cXmLmwUz9 .  In 1917 a mansion block, it is now offices.  The 1915 Post Office Directory (via Ancestry) records the occupier of No.7 Palace Mansions as Major A.H. Dumaresq.  Directory image courtesy of Ancestry

Thank you for this - this seems to confirm what I thought = his residence.

Quite an imposing building still nowadays, whatever its use now.

M

[PaulC78]

Were you able to make a case for this one?

[Matlock1418]

On 16/11/2022 at 14:23, PaulC78 said:

Were you able to make a case for this one?

Was waiting for a response to my further request for possible info from CWGC - but in their absence of a reply to such = I have submitted him for consideration.

... The non-comm wait is on.

M

[PaulC78]

12 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Was waiting for a response to my further request for possible info from CWGC

I'm sure I have enquiries made six months ago that never got a response!